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Post by trimster on Apr 23, 2020 7:16:28 GMT -5
Remember when HC didn’t have scholarships for ten years. That was worse. i was at hc during the non-scholarship era and while we were weak, the program was in better shape. how many times did we go 3-29 in that era? how many weak d3 teams did we lose to? other than walter brown, how many impact players transferred? how many players left the team/school for undisclosed reasons? how much coaching turnover did we have? i honestly have a hard time seeing how we were worse then. You make some very good points. The frequent turnover of coaches and players since RW left is very troubling.
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Post by alum on Apr 23, 2020 7:20:13 GMT -5
This guy would have sat the bench at say PC or BC. He’s undersized and can’t shoot. He was a nice player at HC and should have stayed there. He’s not exactly a passer either. He’s a product of a team that had limited talent. He freelanced a lot. Nelson deserved better. He was no Michael V. That guy was a winner!this guy is a quitter. Where you see "freelancing," I see "made his own opportunities" when nothing else seemed to be working. I am glad somebody was able to do so last year.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 7:29:14 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, we've now crossed the line separating the sins of the past - the culturally weak-kneed Carmody era that recruited players to Pass-Dribble-Shoot U., not Holy Cross - from what is immediately in front of us.
Nelson has to demonstrate NOW that he deserves to be the head coach here. Not just recruit, not just understand X's and O's, but show that he can successfully lead a group of young men, earning their respect, loyalty, and dedication to the team and to the college. I applaud his spoken desire to build a winning culture on and off the court - but we need to see him walk the walk and that the players are all in. And the process starts with Nelson taking a long, honest look in the mirror.
The mass exodus we've witnessed is not typical of our peers, unprecedented in the history of this school, and not attributable to the portal. If he has weeded out the weaklings and the primadonnas, fine. But if kids are leaving because they can't stand playing for this guy, then we have a different problem. Captain Bligh is not the ideal role model for a head coach at HC.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 23, 2020 7:29:24 GMT -5
For those who think, “who cares, these guys leaving weren’t that good and read the handwriting on the wall” (or we’re run off by Nelson), many here are jumping on the bandwagon that these unproven recruits will be SO much better.
And if the campus culture now means players are disposable, what do the incoming players think happens in a year or two if Nelson can get even better players or find out they aren’t as good as they, Nelson or you thought?
Sorry, this change is not for the better IMHO.
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Post by gks on Apr 23, 2020 7:44:52 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, we've now crossed the line separating the sins of the past - the culturally weak-kneed Carmody era that recruited players to Pass-Dribble-Shoot U., not Holy Cross - from what is immediately in front of us. Nelson has to demonstrate NOW that he deserves to be the head coach here. Not just recruit, not just understand X's and O's, but show that he can successfully lead a group of young men, earning their respect, loyalty, and dedication to the team and to the college. I applaud his spoken desire to build a winning culture on and off the court - but we need to see him walk the walk and that the players are all in. And the process starts with Nelson taking a long, honest look in the mirror. The mass exodus we've witnessed is not typical of our peers, unprecedented in the history of this school, and not attributable to the portal. If the program has weeded out the weaklings and the primadonnas, fine. But if kids are leaving because they can't stand playing for this guy, then we have a different problem. Captain Queeg is not the ideal role model for a head coach at HC. I think many on this board do not realize how hard it is to recruit players to Holy Cross...in any sport. This is not 1977. We will never have any idea if Nelson can be a good coach because of this. Chesney is an anomaly. And again...first opportunity he gets he will leave for greener pastures.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 7:45:01 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 7:54:36 GMT -5
I think many on this board do not realize how hard it is to recruit players to Holy Cross...in any sport. This is not 1977. Milan Brown recruited Jehyve Floyd, Mitchell Hahn, Jahaad Proctor, and Andrew Kostecka, among others. And it wasn't in 1977. If he had been a half way decent game coach, he'd still be here and we'd have more to celebrate over the last decade than a March 2016 that was the product of a fluke shot and a freak defender.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 23, 2020 7:56:53 GMT -5
Sean Kearney also hit on what I would say was a 66% hit rate, albeit in a small sample size, with Dudz and O'Shea.
But, #AttackAndServe...whatever that means.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 23, 2020 8:12:33 GMT -5
Definitely tough to remain positive under the circumstances. I will gain or lose a lot of respect for Blossom today depending on whether he tries to address this head-on. If he avoids it altogether, we may not have the right guy steering the ship.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Apr 23, 2020 8:14:29 GMT -5
Bottom line for Nelson is the kids coming in better be REAL good, and better stick around.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 8:17:05 GMT -5
The Chesney model is not one that has been tried in the basketball program. But if Nelson fails here, it's definitely the one that should be pursued next.
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Post by Tom on Apr 23, 2020 8:33:13 GMT -5
Jeff Goodman tweeted Joe Pridgen is transferring Holy Cross leading scorer Joe Pridgen is in the transfer portal, per source. The 6-5 freshman guard averaged 17.4 points and 6.8 rebounds this past season. 21 If someone with the cache of Goodman is tweeting it I wouldn't call it a rumor. As noted earlier in the thread, if Pridgen himself is retweeting Goodman's tweet, I'd say we're beyond rumor
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 23, 2020 8:34:10 GMT -5
Just for clarification...what precisely is the "Chesney model?"
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 23, 2020 8:34:57 GMT -5
The Chesney model is not one that has been tried in the basketball program. But if Nelson fails here, it's definitely the one that should be pursued next. Blaney was a bit of the Chesney model prepping at Stonehill and then Dartmouth back when Dartmouth was considered a lower basketball level than HC.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 8:35:20 GMT -5
A successful D2 or D3 head coach.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 23, 2020 8:37:30 GMT -5
Just for clarification...what precisely is the "Chesney model?" Funk and Wagnalls describes it as a young head coach who has turned one or more lower level teams around to winning programs and then moves up to D-1.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 23, 2020 8:39:33 GMT -5
Regardless of the talent, Nelson needs to show he can become a coach on and off the court. He might very well be a hard worker and really want to be the best, but dang it is hard to understand what he is trying to do on the bench. And of course the transfer numbers indicate he hasn't mastered relationships with the players.
Perhaps patience is required as we live in uncertain times, and we all know the whole world is turned upside down. Divine intervention and a deep breath are welcome for this and the far more important things in life.
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Post by Tom on Apr 23, 2020 8:39:45 GMT -5
Even if we assume for argument's sake (and I am in no way saying that I am buying into the assumption) that everybody who left stunk as ball players, I still think it is a bad look for the program when 11 kids leave the program in a 12 month period for whatever reason
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Post by dadominate on Apr 23, 2020 8:43:32 GMT -5
i personally like the chesney model. success as a head coach at the d2 or d3 level usually translates. if you can coach, you can coach. paulsen in the pl is a great example. sachs would have been a nice hire for us in this mold.
hopefully nelson is learning what it takes to be a head coach and turns things around so the next time won't be for a while/when he leaves us for a better program, but when the next time ultimately comes, i hope we go the chesney model.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 23, 2020 8:44:22 GMT -5
It leaves a terrible odor and not representative of the Holy Cross tradition and values. On the basketball side it gives every coach the ability to say things are a disaster at Holy Cross and have the data to show it to be the case.
An interesting question that won't be answered until it is--What does Evans think of all of this and does he stay or go?
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Post by HC92 on Apr 23, 2020 8:49:40 GMT -5
Even if we assume for argument's sake (and I am in no way saying that I am buying into the assumption) that everybody who left stunk as ball players, I still think it is a bad look for the program when 11 kids leave the program in a 12 month period for whatever reason Totally agree it’s a bad look but digging a little deeper makes it not quite so ugly. 3 of the 11 are walk-ons. One probably should have been a walk-on in D1. One may or may not have an injury that prevents him from playing. 2 left before Nelson had a chance and I think they were both gone regardless of coach. So, you’re really talking about 4 kids where Nelson may need to ask himself what he could have or should have done differently. Lowder, Hargis, Pridgen and Niego. Don’t know any of the details of these beyond a few whispers here and there. Each probably has a different story and, if we knew all the facts, we’d probably assign varying degrees of blame to Nelson.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 23, 2020 8:51:00 GMT -5
It leaves a terrible odor and not representative of the Holy Cross tradition and values. On the basketball side it gives every coach the ability to say things are a disaster at Holy Cross and have the data to show it to be the case. An interesting question that won't be answered until it is--What does Evans think of all of this and does he stay or go? RJE just retweeted the Louth signing yesterday, if that means anything
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 23, 2020 8:54:14 GMT -5
Pat Flannery and Bo Ryan were others who successfully transitioned from D3 head coaching positions to D1. Bob McKillop got the Davidson job after ten years at Long Island Lutheran HS. If you can coach, you can coach.
It's not a guarantee, obviously. Mike Maker (Williams) flopped at Marist, and Bob Walsh (RI College) was a disaster at Maine.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 23, 2020 8:55:02 GMT -5
It leaves a terrible odor and not representative of the Holy Cross tradition and values. On the basketball side it gives every coach the ability to say things are a disaster at Holy Cross and have the data to show it to be the case. An interesting question that won't be answered until it is--What does Evans think of all of this and does he stay or go? My guess is he stays if the choice is his and would be in position to ride an historic turnaround from 3-28, oops that was the Patriots historic turnaround, I mean 3-29 and also be in position to be Interim Head Coach if the turnaround doesn't happen.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 23, 2020 9:08:57 GMT -5
Pat Flannery and Bo Ryan were others who successfully transitioned from D3 head coaching positions to D1. Bob McKillop got the Davidson job after ten years at Long Island Lutheran HS. If you can coach, you can coach. It's certainly not a guarantee, obviously. Mike Maker (Williams) flopped at Marist, and Bob Walsh (RI College) was a disaster at Maine. Kevin Bettencourt (Endicott) and Landry K (Swathmore) would have been very good hires, IMO. They both know the level that is the PL, the kinds of students and players needed to be successful, have had experience running their own programs, and — perhaps most importantly — have been successful running a program.
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