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Post by sader1970 on Jun 15, 2022 8:33:53 GMT -5
While that explains Bryant's (and Holy Cross') logic, it's a a really silly artifice - don't play "regular season" league opponents until a playoff?!
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 15, 2022 9:24:51 GMT -5
Bryant doesn't subscribe to the theory that tennis and golf are throw away sports like another college may or may not. Awed by the travel expense, impressed by the commitment. When a Southland team travels to play Bryant, they can play PC, URI, Brown, HC or UConn as well to make the trip worthwhile. When it comes to these particular sports, the only real travel commitment is traveling to the site of the conference tournament. I don't think you have to play any head-to-head matches with conference members during the season. I'm sure the reason Bryant was brought in was because the Southland needed a school to ensure they have enough schools to maintain NCAA auto-bid in those sports. This is kind of like when Holy Cross Women's Golf competed in the Big South. We weren't flying the team to to Myrtle Beach every other week. They played their regular season tournament schedule mainly in New England and then went down there once a year for the conference championship. In golf, Hartford is still in the Big Sky for a few more years.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 15, 2022 9:26:15 GMT -5
While that explains Bryant's (and Holy Cross') logic, it's a a really silly artifice - don't play "regular season" league opponents until a playoff?! There is very little playing opponents in golf even if surrounded by your conference. Sacred Heart might see one or two teams at a tournament from their conference and they play generally in New England.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 15, 2022 9:33:36 GMT -5
Yeah, well that's probably because golf is a game, not a sport. You are playing against the course, not an opponent. Like bowling. Discuss . . . .
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 15, 2022 12:04:24 GMT -5
Bryant doesn't subscribe to the theory that tennis and golf are throw away sports like another college may or may not. Awed by the travel expense, impressed by the commitment. When a Southland team travels to play Bryant, they can play PC, URI, Brown, HC or UConn as well to make the trip worthwhile. When it comes to these particular sports, the only real travel commitment is traveling to the site of the conference tournament. I don't think you have to play any head-to-head matches with conference members during the season. I'm sure the reason Bryant was brought in was because the Southland needed a school to ensure they have enough schools to maintain NCAA auto-bid in those sports. This is kind of like when Holy Cross Women's Golf competed in the Big South. We weren't flying the team to to Myrtle Beach every other week. They played their regular season tournament schedule mainly in New England and then went down there once a year for the conference championship. That sounds very reasonable. Interesting that 45 minutes south of HC, Bryant has a winning heritage in these four sports that contrasts with HC's losing heritage. Admissions flexibility may explain part of it but certainly not all.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 15, 2022 12:25:58 GMT -5
What if all the Worcester Consortium colleges chipped in to hire two crackerjack skills instructors, one in golf and one in tennis for all the M&W players from the member schools that sponsor those sports to try to max out every player's potential?
The current amount of money spent and what it is spent on for these four sports at HC is not generating competitive teams.
It may be meeting some objectives in attracting above average students who private pay a higher than average portion of tuition, but what about the cumulative intangible drain on the institution of persistent losing?
Anyone talk to Kit recently? Did he mention any creativity or new approaches?
It would be nice if there is a dividend from not buying out any coaching contracts recently that could be used for targeted enhancements.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 15, 2022 13:39:00 GMT -5
/\ /\. We have a participation construct in regards to several (perhaps most) of our sports. We can gain some benefits in terms of having the team (and you allude to a couple) without the burdensome additional costs of trying to develop winning programs. Win-Win in a wacky way.
Football, since this is the football section of Crossports, is NOT part of the participation construct. We have dedicated the requisite resources to win the PL AND advance in the national playoffs.
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Post by alum on Jun 15, 2022 14:20:44 GMT -5
/\ /\. We have a participation construct in regards to several (perhaps most) of our sports. We can gain some benefits in terms of having the team (and you allude to a couple) without the burdensome additional costs of trying to develop winning programs. Win-Win in a wacky way. Football, since this is the football section of Crossports, is NOT part of the participation construct. We have dedicated the requisite resources to win the PL AND advance in the national playoffs. We, and Colgate, are set up to fail. The service academies have unlimited resources. Only BU, Colgate and Army offer hockey. BU is a huge school which can spread its costs over a larger student body and doesn't offer several sports, including football. American doesn't offer football, baseball, softball, lax, golf or tennis. Loyola doesn't offer baseball, softball, football or men's track. The PA schools don't have hockey. (Lehigh and Bucknell have wrestling.) Several don't have rowing. We and Colgate try to do more than the others--and Colgate doesn't have baseball. We are not in a league where everyone is on a similar footing, like the Ivies (or the NESCAC.)
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 15, 2022 14:22:04 GMT -5
When it comes to these particular sports, the only real travel commitment is traveling to the site of the conference tournament. I don't think you have to play any head-to-head matches with conference members during the season. I'm sure the reason Bryant was brought in was because the Southland needed a school to ensure they have enough schools to maintain NCAA auto-bid in those sports. This is kind of like when Holy Cross Women's Golf competed in the Big South. We weren't flying the team to to Myrtle Beach every other week. They played their regular season tournament schedule mainly in New England and then went down there once a year for the conference championship. That sounds very reasonable. Interesting that 45 minutes south of HC, Bryant has a winning heritage in these four sports that contrasts with HC's losing heritage. Admissions flexibility may explain part of it but certainly not all. Bryant has ZERO heritage in Women's Golf. They are starting the program this fall.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 15, 2022 14:23:28 GMT -5
/\ /\. We have a participation construct in regards to several (perhaps most) of our sports. We can gain some benefits in terms of having the team (and you allude to a couple) without the burdensome additional costs of trying to develop winning programs. Win-Win in a wacky way. Football, since this is the football section of Crossports, is NOT part of the participation construct. We have dedicated the requisite resources to win the PL AND advance in the national playoffs. We, and Colgate, are set up to fail. The service academies have unlimited resources. Only BU, Colgate and Army offer hockey. BU is a huge school which can spread its costs over a larger student body and doesn't offer several sports, including football. American doesn't offer football, baseball, softball, lax, golf or tennis. Loyola doesn't offer baseball, softball, football or men's track. The PA schools don't have hockey. (Lehigh and Bucknell have wrestling.) Several don't have rowing. We and Colgate try to do more than the others--and Colgate doesn't have baseball. We are not in a league where everyone is on a similar footing, like the Ivies (or the NESCAC.) American has wrestling also.
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Post by alum on Jun 15, 2022 14:29:06 GMT -5
We, and Colgate, are set up to fail. The service academies have unlimited resources. Only BU, Colgate and Army offer hockey. BU is a huge school which can spread its costs over a larger student body and doesn't offer several sports, including football. American doesn't offer football, baseball, softball, lax, golf or tennis. Loyola doesn't offer baseball, softball, football or men's track. The PA schools don't have hockey. (Lehigh and Bucknell have wrestling.) Several don't have rowing. We and Colgate try to do more than the others--and Colgate doesn't have baseball. We are not in a league where everyone is on a similar footing, like the Ivies (or the NESCAC.) American has wrestling also. Yeah, I quickly rushed through it. I am sure I missed some other things, but the premise is still valid.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 15, 2022 14:33:18 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis?
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Post by dharry13 on Jun 15, 2022 14:43:11 GMT -5
No - you aren't the only one. No disrespect to the athletes at HC playing these sports.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 15, 2022 14:57:07 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis? Wait until you get older and try to sleep through the night.🤣
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 15, 2022 15:04:59 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis? My biggest surprise is the lack of international flavor with HC golf/tennis. These are easy spots to fill with international students for admissions purposes.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 15, 2022 15:21:26 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis? My biggest surprise is the lack of international flavor with HC golf/tennis. These are easy spots to fill with international students for admissions purposes. We've had a Judge and a School Principal as coaches. Perhaps they couldn't devote the time to maximize advantage to HC with the available slots. Good suggestion however.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 16, 2022 22:42:49 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis? Track, xc, swimming...you don't see much angst on the board about those, either.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 0:43:14 GMT -5
Am I the only one who loses absolutely ZERO sleep over Holy Cross not being good at golf or tennis? Track, xc, swimming...you don't see much angst on the board about those, either. Field Hockey, Rowing, volleyball. People bleed out on basketball and have little left for other sports.
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Post by hc87 on Jun 17, 2022 15:47:40 GMT -5
Almost Summah doldrums, so I'll chime in here. I would rate the sports that most HC fans care about/support etc are in the follwing order currently: 1. Football....has supplanted men's hoops due to the spiral it has been in for a decade plus. 2. Men's Hoop....still has a lot of support due to its heritage. Pretty big gap... 3. Women's Hoop....recent success and dovetails off of men's hoop following 4. Men's Ice Hockey.....recent doldrums but a sport where we still compete at a national level, playing some of the best teams in the country etc 5. Baseball....a lot of heritage but fading in importance imo due to the season it's played, level of play etc 6. Men's Lax....recent doldrums (sensing a trend?) but like hockey we compete at the highest level in the country Another pretty big gap 7. Men's Soccer....sort of gets blocked out by football in the Fall 8. Women's Lax/Soccer/Ice Hockey....I would say these are the women's most cared about the most after hoop...just lumping them together mainly out of my own ignorance of which sport has the most fervent following. Support (after graduation) may increase for these sports moving forward as the school produces more alumna than alumni but right now I'd say the most fervent and numbahs-wise of HC fans/supporters are men....women are too smahht to get too caught up in all this Another gap 9. Pretty much everything else....mostly niche or individual sports that really don't have big followings anywhere...save for softball.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 17, 2022 16:17:25 GMT -5
I visited The Jo and asked if I could see the golf simulator. The student manning the front desk said he had never seen it, and very few have apparently seen it, other than the varsity golfers.
I spoke to a facilities manager for the Luth about this, and asked if he had ever seen it. 'Nope.' He did say that golf uses the Loyola field house as a driving range, string up netting to prevent golf balls from dinging stuff. The Luth: a facility that just keeps on giving!
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 17, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5
87's last post is very accurate IMHO.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 17:28:20 GMT -5
Women's hockey plays in Hockey East so the potential of being a national factor is there, but unfortunately the Hart Center rink has been a frozen Lake Woebegone for both teams lately.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 17, 2022 17:52:27 GMT -5
Not that I'm an expert on the subject but I'm guessing that the Hart ice is not "Lake Wobegone" simply because in Lake Wobegone, "everyone is above average." Do I have that right?
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 18:32:04 GMT -5
I believe it's more like the roster of Crossports posters: "where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking and all the children are above average."
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