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Post by hc87 on Feb 9, 2023 13:37:10 GMT -5
LOL....it's amazing how far we've come in watching HC football/hoop in not that long of time (a few years?). Used to watch games on my laptop with frequent buffering issues....now I can see games on my large-screen TV through ESPN+ (though that hasn't been too pleasant this Winter)
As for leaving PL football, it's nevah going to happen as the PL, nee Colonial League, has its origins as a football conference. I think it's still the signature sport of the league though others here may differ, I highly doubt the league would allow HC to leave its football affiliation and remain in the league for other sports. The school has basically built its brand on being in the PL and highly doubt they would leave the PL.
I really don't see the issue with football anyway....we have built a Top 10 program while being in the league for football. Granted we need to modify a couple things to continue our success on the gridiron: red-shirting policy, 63 schollies etc....but the league has altered its rules before (see scholarships in general), I can see the league being open to this moving forward.
Lastly, as I've said often before, one of the best parts about being in the PL for football is ironically enough how it allows us to have great OOC games: Harvard, Yale, BC and Army next year for example.
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Post by trimster on Feb 9, 2023 13:56:58 GMT -5
HC did not follow the IL model. In the early '50's HC acknowledged its long standing policy that student-athletes are academically representative of the student body. Around that time the IL was officially established with the same policy as HC had been following in previous years. HC & the Ivies have been joined at the hip for 70 years. AI is a tool to implement this policy. Please keep the facts straight. Additionally, I would appreciate fewer undecipherable abbreviations, eg "GOR" and mystifying references such as the "deep-pocketed guy from Minnesota." Communication is only effective to the degree it is understood. My apologies for being ignorant. I was thinking more of the need-based aid policy for student-athletes which if I am correct, the Ivies had in place from the time of their formation in the 50's and the PL chose to implement in the mid to late eighties. To a lesser extent, I was thinking of the AI. Just curious, what did HC do in the early 50's to formally acknowledge the policy of student-athletes being representative of the student body.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 9, 2023 14:19:01 GMT -5
HC did not follow the IL model. In the early '50's HC acknowledged its long standing policy that student-athletes are academically representative of the student body. Around that time the IL was officially established with the same policy as HC had been following in previous years. HC & the Ivies have been joined at the hip for 70 years. AI is a tool to implement this policy. Please keep the facts straight. Additionally, I would appreciate fewer undecipherable abbreviations, eg "GOR" and mystifying references such as the "deep-pocketed guy from Minnesota." Communication is only effective to the degree it is understood. My apologies for being ignorant. I was thinking more of the need-based aid policy for student-athletes which if I am correct, the Ivies had in place from the time of their formation in the 50's and the PL chose to implement in the mid to late eighties. To a lesser extent, I was thinking of the AI. Just curious, what did HC do in the early 50's to formally acknowledge the policy of student-athletes being representative of the student body. No apology is needed. Certainly, you are not ignorant. HC's long standing policy was announced in '53 at a time of post war clarification.
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Post by trimster on Feb 9, 2023 14:24:16 GMT -5
My apologies for being ignorant. I was thinking more of the need-based aid policy for student-athletes which if I am correct, the Ivies had in place from the time of their formation in the 50's and the PL chose to implement in the mid to late eighties. To a lesser extent, I was thinking of the AI. Just curious, what did HC do in the early 50's to formally acknowledge the policy of student-athletes being representative of the student body. No apology is needed. Certainly, you are not ignorant. HC's long standing policy was announced in '53 at a time of post war clarification. Thank you for the clarification.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 9, 2023 14:51:32 GMT -5
LOL....it's amazing how far we've come in watching HC football/hoop in not that long of time (a few years?). Used to watch games on my laptop with frequent buffering issues....now I can see games on my large-screen TV through ESPN+ (though that hasn't been too pleasant this Winter) As for leaving PL football, it's nevah going to happen as the PL, nee Colonial League, has its origins as a football conference. I think it's still the signature sport of the league though others here may differ, I highly doubt the league would allow HC to leave its football affiliation and remain in the league for other sports. The school has basically built its brand on being in the PL and highly doubt they would leave the PL. I really don't see the issue with football anyway....we have built a Top 10 program while being in the league for football. Granted we need to modify a couple things to continue our success on the gridiron: red-shirting policy, 63 schollies etc....but the league has altered its rules before (see scholarships in general), I can see the league being open to this moving forward. Lastly, as I've said often before, one of the best parts about being in the PL for football is ironically enough how it allows us to have great OOC games: Harvard, Yale, BC and Army next year for example. If anything, HC should have some leverage to do these things to affect League policy changes built up now after loyalty, and some recent sustained success.
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necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Feb 9, 2023 14:58:24 GMT -5
You lost me at GoR. What the heck is that? Grant of Rights, basically when the current ACC contract expires. Schools like Clemson and Florida State are going to be kicking and screaming about the money their SEC counterparts are making, but they're locked in for a while.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 9, 2023 14:59:24 GMT -5
Although the Patriot League is definitely a polyglot organization (comprised of service academies, liberal art colleges, small universities, and large universities) with a variety of academic reputations, it does it seems to be holding together.
Apart from a few sports, we do seem to struggle to keep up athletically but that’s another story.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 9, 2023 15:39:07 GMT -5
Lastly, as I've said often before, one of the best parts about being in the PL for football is ironically enough how it allows us to have great OOC games: Harvard, Yale, BC and Army next year for example. I think some fans here would rather have those non-conference games than the PL games. But given the way Bucknell, Georgetown, and Lehigh are sliding, maybe they'll all be independents again at some point.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2023 16:07:49 GMT -5
Flo Sports? The "K-Mart Kennedy" of Sports Streamers. Well, the Big East uses FloSports for the olympic sports also. The CAA deal calls for 20 regular season basketball games on CBS Sports Network. Unfortunately because the PL also has a token package with CBS Sports Network, CBSSN is the K-Mart Kennedy of Cable Sports Networks. If you mean the CAA has a package of 20 games on CBS itself, like the Masters or the NFL, that's different and that would be a feather in the CAA's cap/helmet.
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Post by matunuck on Feb 9, 2023 16:13:38 GMT -5
The most important factors for enduring football success is 1) strong financial and institutional footing and 2) compelling OOC games with at least one FBS match up. Losing just one of the two will dry up recruiting and collapse our program given the general state of the PL.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2023 16:14:17 GMT -5
Lastly, as I've said often before, one of the best parts about being in the PL for football is ironically enough how it allows us to have great OOC games: Harvard, Yale, BC and Army next year for example. I think some fans here would rather have those non-conference games than the PL games. But given the way Bucknell, Georgetown, and Lehigh are sliding, maybe they'll all be independents again at some point. Interesting thought. PL FB is working very well at Holy Cross and Fordham right now. That leaves nine of ten full voting members of the Patriot League who can't say that at the moment. That's not ideal.
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Post by crusader1970 on Feb 9, 2023 16:37:40 GMT -5
I've had season tickets to Hofstra basketball (CAA) for many years. The fans/alumni there are not pleased they are on FloSports. Every one I've spoken to wishes they were on ESPN+.
Here is the comparison:
ESPN+ 24 million subscribers $9.99 a month
FloSports .5 million subscribers $29.99 a month
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 9, 2023 16:38:22 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 9, 2023 16:41:20 GMT -5
Here is the comparison:
ESPN+ 24 million subscribers $9.99 a month
FloSports .5 million subscribers $29.99 a month
ESPN+ money has to be shared across the vast network they have from the cricket matches in the Caribbean to the Liberty club hockey game. That is the biggest difference.
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Post by Ignutz on Feb 9, 2023 16:42:58 GMT -5
Another reason why I have no interest in HC joining the CAA.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 9, 2023 17:10:34 GMT -5
Here is the comparison:
ESPN+ 24 million subscribers $9.99 a month
FloSports .5 million subscribers $29.99 a month
ESPN+ money has to be shared across the vast network they have from the cricket matches in the Caribbean to the Liberty club hockey game. That is the biggest difference. FloSports total annual revenue is reported as $16 million.** For ESPN+, using 4th quarter 2022 values reported yesterday, 24.9 million subscribers x $5.53 monthly revenue per subscriber x 12 months = $1,656 million annual revenue (extrapolating 4Q values to a full year). ----------------- It is very hard to find accurate revenue values for FloSports. According to SimilarWeb, total visits in Dec 2022, were 270,000.. That would include those watching AHL. However, there are not 500,000 subscribers, given the total n umber of visits in December. More likely there are closer to 50,000 subscribers than 500,000. 500,000 subscribers x $30 monthly x 12 = $180 million.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 9, 2023 17:37:36 GMT -5
Cricket has a vast following in the US and around the world. Think of immigrants from India, Pakistan, the English speaking Caribbean. Many are cricket fanatics. Possibly, more people worldwide follow cricket than baseball.
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Post by jkh67 on Feb 9, 2023 17:58:51 GMT -5
PL FB is the most boring two bid conference in FCS. No membership changes in ages, none expected. Rumor has it that Delaware will leave the CAA in the near future and follow James Madison into the FBS. (Some support for that rumor is the recent "no comment" response of UD's president to a question about the rumor posed by a big donor in a private meeting, as conveyed to me by an attendee at that meeting.) A friend of mine is a W&M alum and a big supporter of Tribe football. He tells me that folks in Williamsburg are not happy with the departure of JMU and possibly UD and less than impressed with recent additions to the conference. If I were the PL, I'd be paying close attention. There may be an opportunity at some point to persuade one or more CAA schools (think W&M, Richmond, and/or Villanova) to join the PL in football. A long shot perhaps, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 9, 2023 18:07:22 GMT -5
PL FB is the most boring two bid conference in FCS. No membership changes in ages, none expected. Rumor has it that Delaware will leave the CAA in the near future and follow James Madison into the FBS. (Some support for that rumor is the recent "no comment" response of UD's president to a question about the rumor posed by a big donor in a private meeting, as conveyed to me by an attendee at that meeting.) A friend of mine is a W&M alum and a big supporter of Tribe football. He tells me that folks in Williamsburg are not happy with the departure of JMU and possibly UD and less than impressed with recent additions to the conference. If I were the PL, I'd be paying close attention. There may be an opportunity qat some point to persuade one or more CAA schools (think W&M, Richmond, and/or Villanova) to join the PL in football. A long shot perhaps, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. A couple of nice football programs would definitely be a good addition (I don’t subscribe to the notion that a weak and tiny league is good because you get to play lots of OOC games.) Realistically, I don’t see this anytime soon.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2023 18:21:47 GMT -5
Even Johnny Cochran couldn't prove Villanova doesn't fit like a glove in PL FB's footprint.
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necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Feb 9, 2023 18:49:43 GMT -5
PL FB is the most boring two bid conference in FCS. No membership changes in ages, none expected. Rumor has it that Delaware will leave the CAA in the near future and follow James Madison into the FBS. (Some support for that rumor is the recent "no comment" response of UD's president to a question about the rumor posed by a big donor in a private meeting, as conveyed to me by an attendee at that meeting.) A friend of mine is a W&M alum and a big supporter of Tribe football. He tells me that folks in Williamsburg are not happy with the departure of JMU and possibly UD and less than impressed with recent additions to the conference. If I were the PL, I'd be paying close attention. There may be an opportunity at some point to persuade one or more CAA schools (think W&M, Richmond, and/or Villanova) to join the PL in football. A long shot perhaps, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I also heard that Delaware has its sights set on FBS football. Again, I see the FBS as an enterprise that will continually expand for the foreseeable future, akin to college basketball. But who knows? It's also entirely possible that the "Super Leagues" break off from the FBS, leaving 3 tiers of D1 football. That said, I just don't see why a CAA team would bolt for the Patriot League. Doesn't the CAA allow redshirts? I could be wrong on that, but it's a stronger conference with better rules for developing a football program. The PL needs to "get with the times" if it wants to attract new commodities. EDIT: The main article is paywalled, but here's a link to a post regarding Delaware's FBS plans: www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/y3ggog/delaware_potentially_preparing_to_move_up_to_fbs/
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Post by trimster on Feb 9, 2023 19:01:48 GMT -5
PL FB is the most boring two bid conference in FCS. No membership changes in ages, none expected. Rumor has it that Delaware will leave the CAA in the near future and follow James Madison into the FBS. (Some support for that rumor is the recent "no comment" response of UD's president to a question about the rumor posed by a big donor in a private meeting, as conveyed to me by an attendee at that meeting.) A friend of mine is a W&M alum and a big supporter of Tribe football. He tells me that folks in Williamsburg are not happy with the departure of JMU and possibly UD and less than impressed with recent additions to the conference. If I were the PL, I'd be paying close attention. There may be an opportunity at some point to persuade one or more CAA schools (think W&M, Richmond, and/or Villanova) to join the PL in football. A long shot perhaps, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I would be very happy if those 3 schools joined the PL in football and GU went to the Pioneer League. I know it's a longshot but it would be a very positive development.
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Post by fillfittonfield on Feb 9, 2023 19:30:54 GMT -5
IMHO, the only way Nova, W&M, and Richmond would even consider jumping to the PL is if all of the following occurred:
1) Delaware jumped to FBS 2) PL changed its rules to allow non medical redshirts. 3) PL dumped the AI 4) PL went max on FB scholarships (moving from 60 to 63) 5) They all agreed to jump together 6) They could just join PL for football and remain in CAA/Big East/A10 for their other sports
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2023 21:59:50 GMT -5
One out of three ain't bad. I see Villanova as a good fit. To take the two below the Mason Dixon line and have to drop some local schools like Harvard and Yale doesn't seem like a good trade.
All those teams are looking at #6 HC's tail lights right now. They may or may not place as much emphasis on factors we're focused on intently as roadblocks to success such as 60 scholarships, medical redshirting only and the AI.
Is my logic faulty because I see the danger of HC entering a league with non-medical red shirts while we only have undergraduate courses and most or all of the CAA offers graduate degrees?
Even with magnetic Coach Chesney at the helm and in the midst of a fourpeat, we lose some of our fifth years as grad transfers. Post Chesney (I hope not for a while) we would probably lose more. Why join a league with one hand tied behind our back?
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Post by alum on Feb 10, 2023 6:28:09 GMT -5
The CAA signed an eight figure media rights agreement today Flo Sports? The "K-Mart Kennedy" of Sports Streamers. Who pays for the announcers, the cameras, the camera operators, etc in these streaming deals? If the schools pay, how much profit can there be?
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