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Post by longsuffering on Feb 12, 2023 11:32:55 GMT -5
Pakachoag Phreek with the mike drop moment on this subject! He has the receipts as the young people say.🙂
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Post by gks on Feb 12, 2023 16:55:05 GMT -5
In case of deluge, roll your pants up and carry on. I don't want two Southern schools joining the PL so that subject is ridiculous to me. Regarding the flood plain, I always chuckle when that term is raised because I have been attending games at Fitton since the mid sixties and never remember the gridiron being flooded (grass torn up and muddy, yes). How often do they test to see if an area still qualifies as a flood plain? The Great Salt Lake is evaporating so flood plains near it must be losing their designation. The boundaries of a flood plain are based on actual flooding events. I am having trouble embedding the actual images, but this link to the National Archives has six photographs of the 1955 flooding in Worcester. nara.getarchive.net/search?q=%23worcester%20%23floodOne of the photographs is of Webster Square. The area around Webster Square drains into the Middle River, which flows by Fitton Field. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the T&G: Cambridge St. at McKeon Road. This is the Middle River flowing up through the sewer manholes. No description needed. Honest question.... If this picture outlines the flood plain how on earth was a gas station allowed to be built on Southbridge Street next to the Rotman's parking lot? Not only has it been there awhile but it was just completely rebuilt this summer.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 12, 2023 17:16:32 GMT -5
Why'd they let HC build 1/3 of a new stadium while we're at it. Everything on the visitors' side from pillar to post was removed.
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Post by jkh67 on Feb 12, 2023 18:26:34 GMT -5
Flood Plain as that is based on facts, history, and law The other topic might be close but we never know what happens in this crazy world of college sports today In case of deluge, roll your pants up and carry on. I don't want two Southern schools joining the PL so that subject is ridiculous to me. Regarding the flood plain, I always chuckle when that term is raised because I have been attending games at Fitton since the mid sixties and never remember the gridiron being flooded (grass torn up and muddy, yes). How often do they test to see if an area still qualifies as a flood plain? The Great Salt Lake is evaporating so flood plains near it must be losing their designation. As I said in my initial note, it is unlikely that schools like W&M, Richmond, and Villanova would join the PL in football, regardless of the evolving CAA situation. But why would you be opposed to W&M and Richmond joining the PL if the possibility presented itself?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 12, 2023 20:42:49 GMT -5
Hesitant as I am to get into a discussion of hydrodynamics, hydraulics, etc., I'll leave out the Reynolds numbers because I told Newfie no quiz before discussion of Reynolds numbers. Anyway, the flood photos are from 1955. In 1957, the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers began construction of the Worcester Diversion Project. www.nae.usace.army.mil/Missions/Civil-Works/Flood-Risk-Management/Massachusetts/Worcester/which, as pictured in the link above, created a big ditch from west of Webster Square to Auburn to divert high, storm-generated streamflows from the Middle River. About 10 years later, the Commonwealth, in building the Interstate through College Square, constructed a culvert that runs from Southbridge St. to McKeon Rd. conveying the flow of the Middle River to the Blackstone. The culvert channels the flow of he Middle River into a confined space. This has likely affected the hydraulics of the Middle River. An analogy of what might occur is when ice floes pile up against bridge abutments, impeding the flow of the river, and causing the river to rise and flood upstream of the jam. In the case of the Middle River, the rise would occur at the Southbridge St. bridge and College Square. goo.gl/maps/iAjLpiYttTui8Y977
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2023 0:36:43 GMT -5
In case of deluge, roll your pants up and carry on. I don't want two Southern schools joining the PL so that subject is ridiculous to me. Regarding the flood plain, I always chuckle when that term is raised because I have been attending games at Fitton since the mid sixties and never remember the gridiron being flooded (grass torn up and muddy, yes). How often do they test to see if an area still qualifies as a flood plain? The Great Salt Lake is evaporating so flood plains near it must be losing their designation. As I said in my initial note, it is unlikely that schools like W&M, Richmond, and Villanova would join the PL in football, regardless of the evolving CAA situation. But why would you be opposed to W&M and Richmond joining the PL if the possibility presented itself? I have nothing against those two fine institutions but I don't prefer far flung athletic conferences. I also wouldn't trade any of this year's OOC opponents for them, which we would have to do to play in a larger conference. BC, Army, Harvard and Yale are all long time regional rivals that many HC alumni and fans can drive to. Merrimack was founded much later than W&M (1947 vs 1693🙂) but I like how they are so pumped about football, I feel supportive of another Massachusetts Catholic College and I suspect they will bring ten times the fans to Fitton that the Tribe or the Spiders would. Merrimack is excited about playing Holy Cross. Richmond and Bill and Mary would appreciate the opportunity to play a top six school, I assume. But prior to this success under Chesney I don't think they had any interest in playing HC other than William and Mary briefly during the most recent past stretch of success under Mark Duffner a W&M graduate. With Chesney, we have a decent chance of seeing the Tribe or Spiders in the playoffs in any given year. If HC schedules them in a future year I'll be excited about the opportunity. I appreciate they are closer to some HC fans than New England is, so it's all good. Villanova is an intriguing possibility as a PL FB school. The Wildcats would be the fourth Pennsylvania team and the fourth Catholic school in the league. Colgate is the only PL FB member who doesn't share one of those affinities with 'Nova.
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Post by bfoley82 on Feb 13, 2023 1:13:30 GMT -5
Despite the fact that odds are long on any of this, I still contend the more likely candidates to leave the CAA at some point are the 4 northern most football only affiliate members (UNH, URI, Maine and Albany off the top of my head). As the CAA becomes a more Mid-Atlantic/Southern Conference, I just don’t see Richmond, W&M and Villanova leaving. I think if the New England schools ever leave the CAA it will likely be because they decide to spearhead America East Football. Such a development has become more possible now that Bryant is in the America East for all sports. Merrimack would also be a great all-sports fit with football as they have longstanding relationships with Maine, UNH and Vermont in hockey. If America East could bring in Merrimack, convince Holy Cross to join as an all-sports member and bring in Fordham as a football affiliate, you'd be staring at a solid 8-team conference. Potentially 9 if UMASS ever decided to detour back to FCS. I don't think travel is any worse for the New England schools with the recent southern additions, because now the CAA has a POD system. You might actually see LESS miles traveled now. Merrimack is in America East in Men's Lax.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2023 2:05:56 GMT -5
If HC joined the AE as an all sports member, would our overall success across all sports be similar to our luck with former AE member BU? The AE has several large State Universities. Holy Cross is a small private undergraduate only school. That would be something if BU stayed in the PL while HC left given that the PL was founded to provide a home for Holy Cross and it's peers.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 13, 2023 8:18:15 GMT -5
The boundaries of a flood plain are based on actual flooding events. I am having trouble embedding the actual images, but this link to the National Archives has six photographs of the 1955 flooding in Worcester. nara.getarchive.net/search?q=%23worcester%20%23floodOne of the photographs is of Webster Square. The area around Webster Square drains into the Middle River, which flows by Fitton Field. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the T&G: Cambridge St. at McKeon Road. This is the Middle River flowing up through the sewer manholes. No description needed. Honest question.... If this picture outlines the flood plain how on earth was a gas station allowed to be built on Southbridge Street next to the Rotman's parking lot? Not only has it been there awhile but it was just completely rebuilt this summer. There is no prohibition against locating a gas station in a flood plain. Typically though, there would be prohibitions against open storage of hazardous or toxic substances including petroleum products. Where there is not a prohibition, and a property owner stores a hazardous substance in a flood plain, the cost of ameliorating or mitigating the cost of a spill into the waterway can be enormous. See: www.utilitydive.com/news/duke-agrees-to-largest-coal-ash-clean-up-in-us-after-years-of-fighting-with/569699/goo.gl/maps/TrtDp1LH4jdvZ5zh8^^^ The old mill buildings west of College Square. The cement wall was built as part of the Interstate. There was probably a gravel path along the bank of the Middle River, which was removed when the wall was built. Either as a result of the 1955 flood or the channeling of the Middle River, windows are doors on the ground floor were sealed.
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Post by cruskater31 on Feb 13, 2023 9:46:40 GMT -5
This thread on conference affiliation has it all! Redshirts, flood plains, history!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 13, 2023 9:48:42 GMT -5
I think if the New England schools ever leave the CAA it will likely be because they decide to spearhead America East Football. Such a development has become more possible now that Bryant is in the America East for all sports. Merrimack would also be a great all-sports fit with football as they have longstanding relationships with Maine, UNH and Vermont in hockey. If America East could bring in Merrimack, convince Holy Cross to join as an all-sports member and bring in Fordham as a football affiliate, you'd be staring at a solid 8-team conference. Potentially 9 if UMASS ever decided to detour back to FCS. I don't think travel is any worse for the New England schools with the recent southern additions, because now the CAA has a POD system. You might actually see LESS miles traveled now. Merrimack is in America East in Men's Lax. They belong in America East much more so than the NEC. Football is what complicates things.
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Post by cruskater31 on Feb 13, 2023 10:20:26 GMT -5
Merrimack is in America East in Men's Lax. They belong in America East much more so than the NEC. Football is what complicates things. Agree! I do like the idea of the new football conference thrown around on here for the last couple of years. NY, want to be the first commissioner of the America East football league featuring your Holy Cross Crusaders?
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Post by efg72 on Feb 13, 2023 13:26:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I like the PL, but I like the NEC and America East ideas less.
If we can do something about league membership, which is unlikely, we should create a league that allows for growth and continued excellence in the program. Although I am sure I am missing something, I don't see how an America East League does much to help Holy Cross contend for a national championship run. Perhaps it offers even less for future attempts to resurrect the basketball program.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 13, 2023 14:30:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I like the PL, but I like the NEC and America East ideas less. If we can do something about league membership, which is unlikely, we should create a league that allows for growth and continued excellence in the program. Although I am sure I am missing something, I don't see how an America East League does much to help Holy Cross contend for a national championship run. Perhaps it offers even less for future attempts to resurrect the basketball program. Not sure what you mean by "create a league". Here's my thoughts on the America East in our 3 key sports: Basketball -- America East is currently rated #27 in DI, PL #29, more or less a wash. And PL might be slightly better if the two flagship programs (Bucknell, HC) were both actually good. However, PL basketball is a wasteland when it comes to interest. Triple digit attendance across the board -- depressing. At least the America East has some fan bases that could help us generate some rivalries in conference in this sport. Football - Without question, an America East football conference would be better than the Patriot League. Plus, I think there's a chance we could convince Fordham to join us as an affiliate. A conference slate of UNH, Maine, Albany, Fordham, URI, Bryant and Merrimack (+ UMASS if they come back to FCS) is more appealing than what we have now IMO. Close but AE football slightly preferred. I do enjoy Lehigh, Lafayette and Colgate as football opponents, would miss those trips. Hockey -- The biggest reason why I'd be on board with joining America East. Such a move would allow us to forge relationships that I think would ultimately get us into the men's Hockey East conference.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 13, 2023 14:43:25 GMT -5
I don't think it's the killer in football some people make it out to be. Don't see attractive alternatives, especially since the CAA has adopted a Southern Strategy (copyright, 1968 Nixon Campaign). Don't see anything in that league that attractive any more save for the New England schools. Never know what might happen in the future, however. I agree on the alternatives. Given the choice between a schedule full of CAA games and the current setup, I'll take the latter. I do think the PL has been a killer in hoops, the Willard Era aside. Patriot League basketball is a total snooze fest. Nobody cares.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 13, 2023 15:35:44 GMT -5
It sounds like this is for Hockey, which I think is fine, but perhaps if the program continues to improve, Hockey East might still be an option ( I don't pretend to understand what that league wants or needs from HC to be an acceptable candidate)
However, I see little value in playing Bryant or Merrimack in any sport unless you use Merrimack as an occasional opponent in the football game at Polar Park.
I prefer the PL with six games, 2 FBS games against mid-level opponents, a CAA opponent each year from the UNH/URI/NOVA group, playing 2 of 4 vs. Harvard/Yale/Brown/Dartmouth.
For 12-game seasons look at an FCS school in Florida or Texas, given we seem to be successful recruiting in these areas.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2023 17:53:31 GMT -5
This thread on conference affiliation has it all! Redshirts, flood plains, history! I expect Paul Revere in Crusader armor to ride by shouting "The Redshirts are coming!" any minute.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 13, 2023 18:21:03 GMT -5
A new conference introduces a wild card the HC administration has not dealt with in nearly 40 years: no Index. Will they see this as an opportunity to improve across all sports, or are wary of the commitment and the perceived impact upon admissions? Then again, when PL schools (outside Georgetown in football) have gone SAT-optional, would they care?
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Post by efg72 on Feb 13, 2023 18:35:48 GMT -5
A true hypothetical
If we were able to get no index for the PL it could be a decent league in the future
Perhaps a 10-12 team conference for all sports- navy, army, airforce, Gtown (would have difficult decisions, along with Loyola and the PA mafia)
Gtown alums hate finishing last in the big east in hoops as it once paid for it becoming a global institution, , and academies would believe they would dominate
The future might be interesting
Called creating a new league and vision for the future
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2023 20:09:03 GMT -5
It sounds like this is for Hockey, which I think is fine, but perhaps if the program continues to improve, Hockey East might still be an option ( I don't pretend to understand what that league wants or needs from HC to be an acceptable candidate) However, I see little value in playing Bryant or Merrimack in any sport unless you use Merrimack as an occasional opponent in the football game at Polar Park. I prefer the PL with six games, 2 FBS games against mid-level opponents, a CAA opponent each year from the UNH/URI/NOVA group, playing 2 of 4 vs. Harvard/Yale/Brown/Dartmouth. For 12-game seasons look at an FCS school in Florida or Texas, given we seem to be successful recruiting in these areas. Perhaps HC vs UIW, promoted as "Which is mightier, the Cross or the Word?"😇🙏
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Post by efg72 on Feb 13, 2023 20:31:00 GMT -5
I think football excellence can push our great school way ahead of our competition, much like hoops did years ago
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 13, 2023 20:53:53 GMT -5
I think football excellence can push our great school way ahead of our competition, much like hoops did years ago Who is our competition? That's a question that influences conference membership, at the same time conference membership influences it.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 13, 2023 21:11:26 GMT -5
Our football competition should be the FCS programs historically finishing in the Top 10
To be the best you measure yourself against the best- imho
In the next three or four years we need to set the same standards in the mid majors for hoops - m/w
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 13, 2023 21:46:03 GMT -5
Our football competition should be the FCS programs historically finishing in the Top 10 To be the best you measure yourself against the best- imho In the next three or four years we need to set the same standards in the mid majors for hoops - m/w This group has changed a bunch over the lifespan of I-AA / FCS football, mainly due to schools having moved up over the years. The Dakota schools were still DII 20 years ago. But based on schools still currently in FCS, you'd be talking about Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, Youngstown State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Northern Iowa, Furman, Delaware, Villanova and McNeese State. You don't really see FCS teams crossing the country for regular season non-conference games within the division. When teams travel, it's for FBS paydays typically. I thought the "model schedule" you outlined within the context of remaining in the PL was solid, and more or less what our schedules have been like of late. Interesting idea to throw in a travel game down south in years with a 12th game. Bring on Incarnate Word and Florida A&M!
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 14, 2023 0:00:00 GMT -5
I like pay games against regional FBS teams instead of traveling to Timbuktu to play a ranked FCS team on our dime to achieve the challenge and rigor we seek.
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