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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 12, 2023 13:13:00 GMT -5
Dear Members of the Holy Cross Community, At this time of respite over fall break, we watch in sorrow as horrific violence against Israeli civilians by Hamas erupts into devastating warfare in Israel and Gaza. We join many in our community who are grieving, fearful and outraged, and we condemn this loss of life and brutal destruction caused by the unprecedented terrorist attacks on Israel this past weekend. Holy Cross is a Jesuit and Catholic institution, and home to many people with deep connections to the Holy Land, which includes Israel and Gaza. Even for those without a personal tie to this region, our engaged community has long demonstrated advocacy, care and commitment to a peaceful and just future for Israelis and Palestinians. This region is the cradle of our Abrahamic religious traditions, which call on us to uphold and celebrate the dignity and value of every human being. We ask all community members to continue to demonstrate these compassionate values as we grapple with this fast-changing conflict and its painful impacts. Next Tuesday, October 17, at 3:30 p.m. we will hold an interfaith prayer service for peace, with our returning students, faculty and staff. We hope that you will join us, in person or in spirit. This service, sponsored by our student chapter of Pax Christi and the Chaplains’ Office, will provide much-needed space to offer and receive support and begin to put our faith into action, together. If there is anyone impacted by the ongoing violence in the region who you would like us to lift up in prayer by name, please share names and intentions here in advance of the interfaith service. Sincerely,
Vincent D. Rougeau President
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2023 13:16:37 GMT -5
SoV, Thanks for posting that. It was a statement worth waiting for.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 12, 2023 13:26:06 GMT -5
Well done by PVR. This statement strikes the right tone.
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Post by alum on Oct 12, 2023 13:38:38 GMT -5
Well done. He blames Hamas, mourns the fact of war, hopes for peace, and makes clear he believes that Gaza is a separate state from Israel. While I am not convinced that most Americans (including me) fully understand all of the subtlities of the Palestinian/Israeli disputes, including its century plus history, I do think most agree that a two state solution is the answer. That won't happen unless leaders look at the world through that lens.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 12, 2023 14:11:34 GMT -5
In teaching Middle East Culture as part of a World Cultures course, I found the best source for background on the Arab-Israeli Conflict comes from the Society of Friends (the Quakers). One of their main goals is Peace in the Middle East. Here is a statement from them:
"Quakers have had a deep concern for the peoples of the Middle East and a multifaceted engagement with them from the foundation of Friends Girls School in 1869 until the present. This concern has been shaped and sustained by the missionary work of evangelical Friends among the Palestinian Arabs and by the relief work carried out by the American Friends Service Committee and European Quakers during the Nazi era to help rescue European Jewry. These experiences with peoples who tragically became antagonists have drawn Friends into work to ameliorate and resolve the now century-old Arab-Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a conflict that seems certain to persist for at least another generation."
Their statement on the origins of the Arab-Israeli Conflict was denounced by each side as favoring the other side. I found itto be very balanced with careful wording and a very accurate timeline. If you want to try to understand what is goingon now, you may want to start there.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 12, 2023 15:04:57 GMT -5
My wife and I have spent countless hours listening to the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra's performances of Beethoven's symphonies. The orchestra is composed of musicians from Israel and Palestine and led by Daniel Barenboim who grew up in Argentina but I believe is now an Israeli. If only the peoples of that war-torn part of the world could exhibit the harmony that we hear in the performances of this great orchestra. See below a recap of how the orchestra was started:
The origins of the West-Eastern Divan lie in the conversations between its founders, Edward Said and Daniel Barenboim. Over the course of their great friendship, the Palestinian author/scholar and Israeli conductor/pianist discussed ideas on music, culture and humanity. In their exchanges, they realized the urgent need for an alternative way to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The opportunity to do this came when Barenboim and Said initiated the first workshop using their experience as a model. This evolved into the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra that global audiences know today.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 12, 2023 15:21:02 GMT -5
The slaughter of a thousand Jewish civilians by Hamas terrorists was such a monstrous (in every sense of the word) event I would have been surprised if the Holy Cross president did not comment.
I'm a harsh grader and I give PVR’s letter an A. (I might add a note to him that he was a day late with the assignment and paragraph 1 is particularly effective.)
On a related issue: At least 27 of the civilian dead are Americans as are 14 of the missing. One suspects we will work to bring their killers to justice. And "work" is an interesting word.
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 12, 2023 15:25:43 GMT -5
A good friend who is a student of the middle east sent me this summary that he wrote about the current state of affairs. I thought it was a great summary, and worthy of sharing with the group. Prior to 1948, there was no Israel and no Palestine in modern Times. That part of the world was part of the Ottoman empire from the 1600s until 1918 and a British mandate from 1918 until 1948…neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians can claim a politically recognized homeland in that area. They both, as populations, however, have historic and sociological claims. The United Nations came together and overwhelmingly approved a two state solution in 1948 which the Jews of Israel accepted without question. The Palestinians aligned themselves with Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Egypt, and on day one of the creation of the state of Israel, invaded Israel with the express intent of annihilation of the state of Israel and the Jews dwelling therein. The Arab nations and Palestinians failed. From 1948 onward, for several decades, Jordan had political control of the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. The West Bank, at that time incorporated old Jerusalem and Jews were not allowed to worship in their holy places. At any point the Arab nations could have created a Palestinian state and taken the Palestinians out of their refugee status, giving them a homeland, but pertinently neither Jordan nor Egypt ever made any effort to liberate the Palestinians. The spiritual leader of the Palestinians in 1948 was the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who was sought as a war criminal after World War II, having spent much of the war in Nazi Germany. In 2017, Hamas changed their charter to make it more "humanistic" and less antisemitic. [they no longer talked about Muslims trying to murder Jews if they were hiding behind trees or rocks.] in the new version of their charter, they now call for the creation of a humanistic state in the Middle East and that state would be Palestine eliminating the state of Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hamas does not accept the two state solution, and it exists to create a single state of Palestine with the attendant annihilation of Israel. The brutal atrocities committed by the cowardly human lifeforms operating on behalf of Hamas in Israel in the last few days are to be universally condemned. 250 young people at a music festival/rave murdered brutally. Another 650 Israelis murdered most of them civilians.  an unclear number of Israelis, taken hostage, many of them, children, women, and elderly.  if these numbers are to be compared on a pro rata basis to the American population, this would represent over 45,000 dead Americans and over 5000 hostages.  Israel is well within its right to do whatever it takes to destroy the military power of Hamas, and create a safe haven for the Jews of Israel. When the Palestinians love their children, more than they hate the Jews, peace could come to the Middle East . Hamas and Fatah have to unilaterally declare their willingness to allow a Jewish state in Israel to exist peacefully and within defensible boundaries before there can be any meaningful basis for peace in the Middle East or the creation of a Palestinian state.  These are my thoughts today. 
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 12, 2023 15:39:41 GMT -5
I am certainly no expert on the Middle East but I try to follow what happens there. If I'm not mistaken, the U.N. plan in 1947 called for a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. The Palestinians refused to sign the plan and threatened Israel with war if they did. David Ben Gurion called his top military commander and asked what their chances were in the event of a war. 50-50 was the answer, but Israel went ahead and signed off on the plan and Israel was born in 1948. Of course, there was a war and Israel won.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 12, 2023 16:19:48 GMT -5
The slaughter of a thousand Jewish civilians by Hamas terrorists was such a monstrous (in every sense of the word) event I would have been surprised if the Holy Cross president did not comment. I'm a harsh grader and I give it an A. (I might add a note to him that he was a day late with the assignment and paragraph 1 is particularly effective.) On a related issue: At least 27 of the civilian dead are Americans as are 14 of the missing. One suspects we will work to bring their killers to justice. And "work" is an interesting word. I suspect HC and PVR wanted to see statements other colleges put out and what the reaction was to them first, prior to releasing theirs.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 17, 2023 16:51:46 GMT -5
New York CNN — ‘Stunned and sickened.’ Wexner Foundation cuts ties with Harvard over ‘tiptoeing’ on HamasA nonprofit founded by former Victoria’s Secret billionaire Leslie Wexner and his wife Abigail is breaking off ties with Harvard University, alleging the school has been “tiptoeing” over Hamas’ terror attacks against Israel. The Wexner Foundation’s decision to end its relationship and financial support for Harvard is the latest fallout amid criticism from donors who were alarmed by the university’s initial response to the attacks and to an anti-Israel statement issued by student groups. www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/business/wexner-harvard-hamas-israel-antisemitism/index.htmlThe academic left has great difficulty supporting Israel (given the absolute categorization of Israel as ‘oppressor’ in Marxian terms) and condemning Hamas. Perhaps I’ll send Wexner PVR’s excellent letter.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 17, 2023 17:41:41 GMT -5
Penn alum Jon Huntsman has announced that his family foundation will stop donating to the school over its unwillingness to condemn the attack on Israel. They have donated tens of millions of dollars over the years. On X today I saw a video of a Cornell professor speaking to a crowd and saying he was "exhilarated' by what Hamas did in Israel.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 17, 2023 18:06:22 GMT -5
New York CNN — ‘Stunned and sickened.’ Wexner Foundation cuts ties with Harvard over ‘tiptoeing’ on HamasA nonprofit founded by former Victoria’s Secret billionaire Leslie Wexner and his wife Abigail is breaking off ties with Harvard University, alleging the school has been “tiptoeing” over Hamas’ terror attacks against Israel. The Wexner Foundation’s decision to end its relationship and financial support for Harvard is the latest fallout amid criticism from donors who were alarmed by the university’s initial response to the attacks and to an anti-Israel statement issued by student groups. www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/business/wexner-harvard-hamas-israel-antisemitism/index.htmlThe academic left has great difficulty supporting Israel (given the absolute categorization of Israel as ‘oppressor’ in Marxian terms) and condemning Hamas. Perhaps I’ll send Wexner PVR’s excellent letter. Maybe we could pick up Wexner on waivers.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 17, 2023 18:32:27 GMT -5
Les lived about 4 miles from me in Ohio when he lived in an enormous home in New Albany. Supposedly he had a sunken dining room table the size of most people’s living room that would be elevated all set up.
He was buddies with Jeffrey Epstein. But, then again, a lot of billionaires were Epstein’s friends.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 17, 2023 18:44:24 GMT -5
Top law firm rescinds job offers to Ivy League students who signed Israel lettersThe law firm Davis Polk said in an internal email to staff members that the students’ statements don’t represent the firm’s values.
Top U.S. law firm Davis Polk announced in an internal email that it had rescinded letters of employment for three law students at Harvard and Columbia universities who signed on to organizational statements about Israel, one of the latest responses to open letters from university groups about the Israel-Hamas conflict that have roiled university donors, employers, alumni and students.
“These statements are simply contrary to our firm’s values and we thus concluded that rescinding these offers was appropriate in upholding our responsibility to provide a safe and inclusive work environment for all Davis Polk employees,” said the email, signed by Neil Barr. www.nbcnews.com/business/corporations/harvard-letter-israel-columbia-ivy-davis-polk-law-firm-student-rcna120881
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Post by mm67 on Oct 17, 2023 18:59:05 GMT -5
Americans of all stripes are united in our horror at the slaughter of Israelis by Hamas. Sadly, a fringe left cohort in universities and the DSA (& some right wing anti-semitic extremists) have decided to support the mass murder of Jews. We as a nation are overwhelmingly united in our horror and support for Israelis during this painful time. An interfaith prayer service was a beautiful response by HC.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 17, 2023 19:00:24 GMT -5
Both combatants are killing civilians at an alarming rate.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 17, 2023 19:27:02 GMT -5
During Yale's graduation three years ago I witnessed a large pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel demonstration. Complete with the old Israel=Apartheid placards and BLM/Native American intersectionals. I had heard this sort of thing took place as an outgrowth of left wing academia (Jews as colonizing oppressors, Palestinians as the colonized oppressed... plus intersectional theory ) but had never actually seen it. I should mention that more than one Jewish parent was disgusted by the display. And, according to one graduating student, this sort of thing was quite common throughout her four years of attendance. More of a mainstream movement than a fringe movement on campus. Soooo, I'm really not surprised at the weak Ivy response to the slaughter of the Jews last week. And the actions of some students. Those that are surprised haven't spent time on campus.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 17, 2023 19:43:54 GMT -5
During Yale's graduation three years ago I witnessed a large pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel demonstration. Complete with the old Israel=Apartheid placards and BLM/Native American intersectionals. I had heard this sort of thing took place as an outgrowth of left wing academia (Jews as colonizing oppressors, Palestinians as the colonized oppressed... plus intersectional theory ) but had never actually seen it. I should mention that more than one Jewish parent was disgusted by the display. And, according to one graduating student, this sort of thing was quite common throughout her four years of attendance. More of a mainstream movement than a fringe movement on campus. Soooo, I'm really not surprised at the weak Ivy response to the slaughter of the Jews last week. And the actions of some students. Those that are surprised haven't spent time on campus. I think we are all sufficiently acquainted with your feelings on this subject.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 17, 2023 20:40:55 GMT -5
Both combatants are killing civilians at an alarming rate. I think we are all sufficiently acquainted with your feelings on this subject.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 17, 2023 21:09:14 GMT -5
A good friend who is a student of the middle east sent me this summary that he wrote about the current state of affairs. I thought it was a great summary, and worthy of sharing with the group. Prior to 1948, there was no Israel and no Palestine in modern Times. That part of the world was part of the Ottoman empire from the 1600s until 1918 and a British mandate from 1918 until 1948…neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians can claim a politically recognized homeland in that area. They both, as populations, however, have historic and sociological claims. The United Nations came together and overwhelmingly approved a two state solution in 1948 which the Jews of Israel accepted without question. The Palestinians aligned themselves with Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Egypt, and on day one of the creation of the state of Israel, invaded Israel with the express intent of annihilation of the state of Israel and the Jews dwelling therein. The Arab nations and Palestinians failed. From 1948 onward, for several decades, Jordan had political control of the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. The West Bank, at that time incorporated old Jerusalem and Jews were not allowed to worship in their holy places. At any point the Arab nations could have created a Palestinian state and taken the Palestinians out of their refugee status, giving them a homeland, but pertinently neither Jordan nor Egypt ever made any effort to liberate the Palestinians. The spiritual leader of the Palestinians in 1948 was the grand mufti of Jerusalem, who was sought as a war criminal after World War II, having spent much of the war in Nazi Germany. In 2017, Hamas changed their charter to make it more "humanistic" and less antisemitic. [they no longer talked about Muslims trying to murder Jews if they were hiding behind trees or rocks.] in the new version of their charter, they now call for the creation of a humanistic state in the Middle East and that state would be Palestine eliminating the state of Israel and the Palestinian territories. Hamas does not accept the two state solution, and it exists to create a single state of Palestine with the attendant annihilation of Israel. The brutal atrocities committed by the cowardly human lifeforms operating on behalf of Hamas in Israel in the last few days are to be universally condemned. 250 young people at a music festival/rave murdered brutally. Another 650 Israelis murdered most of them civilians.  an unclear number of Israelis, taken hostage, many of them, children, women, and elderly.  if these numbers are to be compared on a pro rata basis to the American population, this would represent over 45,000 dead Americans and over 5000 hostages.  Israel is well within its right to do whatever it takes to destroy the military power of Hamas, and create a safe haven for the Jews of Israel. When the Palestinians love their children, more than they hate the Jews, peace could come to the Middle East . Hamas and Fatah have to unilaterally declare their willingness to allow a Jewish state in Israel to exist peacefully and within defensible boundaries before there can be any meaningful basis for peace in the Middle East or the creation of a Palestinian state.  These are my thoughts today. According to this article...https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-palestine-confilct-bombing-gaza-strip-hamas-united-states-isis-2023-10 - Israel said it dropped 6,000 bombs on the Gaza Strip during the first six days of war with Hamas.
- That's more bombs than the US-led coalition dropped in any month during the fight against ISIS.
- Allied forces dropped 5,000 bombs in August 2017 — at the peak of their air campaign.
Those are horrific numbers for a region MUCH smaller than Afghanistan.
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Post by gks on Oct 18, 2023 7:51:36 GMT -5
Israel has the right not to put up with never-ending terrorist attacks. 1,400 Israeli deaths are equivalent to about 30k if this happened in the U.S. That's the town of Shrewsbury. Gone.
The thinking of Israel should just put up with this non-sense year after year after year is garbage and needs to end. Palestine has had their chance to get rid of Hamas. They chose not to.
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Post by Tom on Oct 18, 2023 8:49:14 GMT -5
Top law firm rescinds job offers to Ivy League students who signed Israel lettersThe law firm Davis Polk said in an internal email to staff members that the students’ statements don’t represent the firm’s values.
Top U.S. law firm Davis Polk announced in an internal email that it had rescinded letters of employment for three law students at Harvard and Columbia universities who signed on to organizational statements about Israel, one of the latest responses to open letters from university groups about the Israel-Hamas conflict that have roiled university donors, employers, alumni and students.
“These statements are simply contrary to our firm’s values and we thus concluded that rescinding these offers was appropriate in upholding our responsibility to provide a safe and inclusive work environment for all Davis Polk employees,” said the email, signed by Neil Barr. www.nbcnews.com/business/corporations/harvard-letter-israel-columbia-ivy-davis-polk-law-firm-student-rcna120881 These are people who are about to graduate from Ivy League law schools. They are not dummies. I am sure when they signed an open letter telling the world that Israel's policies are the main cause of this attack, they so firmly held that principle that this type of backlash was worth making the public statement Words have meaning and sometimes in the real world that comes with consequences. If three law students didn't already know that when they signed a public letter, they're sure learning the hard way
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 18, 2023 8:58:09 GMT -5
JMO but going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, any Ivy league school (or PL school as well) might mean you are "book smart" which is very, very different than "street smart" - using the term loosely meaning, as Tom put it, "the real world." While a percentage of them very likely did this on principle and damn the consequences, I'd be willing to bet big money that many of them had no clue what the consequences would be. And, now they are learning how the world operates beyond the classroom.
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Post by Tom on Oct 18, 2023 9:33:11 GMT -5
I know some brilliant people who don't have the common sense to come in out of the rain (excluding standing in rain at Fitton Field)
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