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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 20, 2023 7:14:55 GMT -5
So I don’t get accused of plagerism myself (😉), this is from the American Historical Association. I can’t read the whole segment above but the phrase “without fear or favor” I have heard multiple times lately whether Christopher Wray or Merrick Garland or numerous others without attribution. It’s in the common use category IMO. And referring to others as driving me more than I would myself has probably been used by numerous athletes referring to their coach when they receive an award. Gay may well have plagerized but I don’t see this as a good example. It’s word for word.
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Post by alum on Dec 20, 2023 8:16:50 GMT -5
I think that Gay likely stole the acknowlegment language. Using "fear or favor" is not problematic as it is a commonly used term. Using it in the exact same way as another writer shouldn't happen.
That said, let's think about a deeply philosophical question. What is worse, plagarism in academic articles read by a bunch of other academics or lying about a topic to the general populace in order to promote an agenda? Rufo admitted (see below) lying about an academic term with a specfic meaning in order to promote his agenda. Rufo is earning a living misrepresenting critical race theory as something it is not and was successful in making the American public, including some of those who post on Crossports, repeat his lies.
Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ @realchrisrufo We have successfully frozen their brand—"critical race theory"—into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.
In January 2017, Kelly Ann Conway told us about "alternative facts" and we all laughed. We should listen to people when they tell us who they are. She, Rufo and others have figured out that their supporters want to be lied to so that they may repeat their lies and spread them.
P.S. To answer my question, Rufo and Gay are equally wrong. I think his actions might have greater consequences.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 20, 2023 9:53:27 GMT -5
Other issues aside, a college president remaining in her capacity as college president following credible and proven accusations of plagiarism is an awfully curious development. I get the fact she is far left and the faculty is far left (so they share a common far left intersectional worldview) but ordinarily a board of trustees takes a more rational view.
It is possible the board is creating a graceful exit but for some reason they seem to be handling her case (and this on the heels of her disastrous handling of the Harvard anti-semitism issue) very very delicately.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 20, 2023 10:00:10 GMT -5
Would Larry Summers have been forced to resign had he plagiarized?
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Post by Tom on Dec 20, 2023 10:49:26 GMT -5
Are students allowed to plagiarize in their coursework? Can you punish/flunk/expel a student for plagiarism if you effectively say it is acceptable behavior for the school administration?
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Post by dadominate on Dec 20, 2023 11:48:56 GMT -5
I think that Gay likely stole the acknowlegment language. Using "fear or favor" is not problematic as it is a commonly used term. Using it in the exact same way as another writer shouldn't happen. That said, let's think about a deeply philosophical question. What is worse, plagarism in academic articles read by a bunch of other academics or lying about a topic to the general populace in order to promote an agenda? Rufo admitted (see below) lying about an academic term with a specfic meaning in order to promote his agenda. Rufo is earning a living misrepresenting critical race theory as something it is not and was successful in making the American public, including some of those who post on Crossports, repeat his lies. Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️@realchrisrufoWe have successfully frozen their brand—"critical race theory"—into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.
In January 2017, Kelly Ann Conway told us about "alternative facts" and we all laughed. We should listen to people when they tell us who they are. She, Rufo and others have figured out that their supporters want to be lied to so that they may repeat their lies and spread them. P.S. To answer my question, Rufo and Gay are equally wrong. I think his actions might have greater consequences.do you honestly believe that the actions of rufo have greater consequences than the president of what is arguably the most esteemed, well-funded, and influential university in the history of the united states? that is absurd.
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Post by alum on Dec 20, 2023 12:05:30 GMT -5
I think that Gay likely stole the acknowlegment language. Using "fear or favor" is not problematic as it is a commonly used term. Using it in the exact same way as another writer shouldn't happen. That said, let's think about a deeply philosophical question. What is worse, plagarism in academic articles read by a bunch of other academics or lying about a topic to the general populace in order to promote an agenda? Rufo admitted (see below) lying about an academic term with a specfic meaning in order to promote his agenda. Rufo is earning a living misrepresenting critical race theory as something it is not and was successful in making the American public, including some of those who post on Crossports, repeat his lies. Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️@realchrisrufoWe have successfully frozen their brand—"critical race theory"—into the public conversation and are steadily driving up negative perceptions. We will eventually turn it toxic, as we put all of the various cultural insanities under that brand category.
In January 2017, Kelly Ann Conway told us about "alternative facts" and we all laughed. We should listen to people when they tell us who they are. She, Rufo and others have figured out that their supporters want to be lied to so that they may repeat their lies and spread them. P.S. To answer my question, Rufo and Gay are equally wrong. I think his actions might have greater consequences.do you honestly believe that the actions of rufo have greater consequences than the president of what is arguably the most esteemed, well-funded, and influential university in the history of the united states? that is absurd. I should have been clearer. I don't think that the particular cited instances of plagarism by Gay have much impact as her work is unread by all but a few. Certainly, that the president of Harvard appears to have violated her own instiution's rules does matter a lot. I am not shocked that Rufo and others, including posters on this site, equated CRT with the teaching of facts about history they didn't like. My amusement was that he admitted on Twitter he was going to promote these lies. The good news is that the voters are a fickle bunch and have moved on from the book banners and the CRT types. I am not sure if is short attention span or the news of threesomes by a member of the Moms for Liberty.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 20, 2023 16:46:34 GMT -5
Harvard president’s corrections do not address her clearest instances of plagiarism, including as a student in the 1990s By Em Steck, CNN Published 3:11 PM EST, Wed December 20, 2023 CNN — Harvard President Claudine Gay recently requested corrections for two of her academic papers, but she did not address even clearer examples of plagiarism from earlier in her academic history at the school, according to a CNN analysis of her writings.
In response to accusations of plagiarism, the embattled Harvard president recently submitted corrections to two papers she wrote as a professional academic in 2001 and 2017. But a CNN examination of Gay’s published works documented that Gay committed other, clearer examples of plagiarism while she was studying for her PhD at Harvard in the 1990s.
Those include an instance in her dissertation where she copied lines verbatim from another source without citation...amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/20/business/harvard-president-claudine-gay-plagiarism/index.html[CNN, interestingly enough, was not snookered by the Harvard board’s curious memo.]
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Post by hcpride on Dec 21, 2023 13:04:20 GMT -5
Harvard President Claudine Gay requests new corrections as House panel launches plagiarism probeBy Matt Egan and Melissa Alonso, CNN 4 minute read Updated 11:18 AM EST, Thu December 21, 2023 (CNN) — Harvard President Claudine Gay is back in the hot seat as the embattled leader requested additional corrections of her past work, and a House committee widened an existing probe of Harvard to include an investigation into allegations of plagiarism.
In a statement to CNN on Thursday morning, a Harvard spokesperson said the university reviewed more of Gay’s academic work, and the president plans to update her 1997 PhD dissertation to correct additional instances of “inadequate citation.” But Harvard did not use the word “plagiarism” in its review of Gay’s work, and the university said Gay’s past mistakes did not constitute a punishable offense under its research misconduct rules.
The new corrections, first reported by The Harvard Crimson, are on top of the ones Gay issued last week to two scholarly articles she wrote in the 2000s. But a review by CNN, which published Wednesday, found Gay’s previous requested corrections did not address even clearer examples of plagiarism from her earlier academic work, including her dissertation...www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/business/harvard-president-plagiarism-house-committee/index.htmlConservative commentators have suggested that there is one simple explanation for the curious conduct of Harvard’s board in respect to their president (and campus anti-semitism and plagiarism). Thus far Harvard’s board has backed what is seen (at Harvard) as a treasured diversity hire at the cost of (old-fashioned) ideas such as academic inquiry and academic integrity.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 21, 2023 17:25:31 GMT -5
Kudos are due to our wonderful House of Representatives, the "Peoples House."This term the House has passed a grand total of 27 pieces of legislation which became law. Amazing! In addition the House Education Sub Committee charged with investigating anti-semitism on college campuses has now branched out & decided to investigate plagiarism. Our brilliant legislators are spending the peoples' time investigating reports of plagiarism by Claudine Gay, President of Harvard, a private university. Plagiarism in academia at a private university is clearly a bread & butter issue of importance to all Americans. Bravo! I sleep more soundly at night knowing that our House is working diligently to investigate the integrity of a scholar's written work. Rather than waste time on the federal budget, aid to Israel, aid to Ukraine and a host of other trifling bills, our glorious House is investigating plagiarism at Harvard. Give it another bravo. We can all rest easy. The House has clearly shown itself fit to govern. "People House," indeed.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 22, 2023 13:14:34 GMT -5
New York Times assiduously avoiding the "P" word in this headline: Harvard Finds More Instances of ‘Duplicative Language’ in President’s Work www.nytimes.com/2023/12/20/us/harvard-claudine-gay-plagiarism.htmlAny Harvard kid accused of plagiarism [assuming that word itself survives this week up in Cambridge] can now claim innocence via the "Duplicative Language" defense made famous (AKA conveniently invented) by the Harvard Board relative to the Harvard President and her Harvard PhD: "I didn't plagiarize I just duplicated the words without citation". There is a tiny chance NYT is taking an ironic poke at the ridiculous excuse.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 22, 2023 13:23:13 GMT -5
You know it’s bad when the NYT has turned on Harvard / Gay.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 22, 2023 14:24:50 GMT -5
Think it's wonderful so many of us are concerned about academic plagiarism. Many are providing invaluable insights, which would be of value to the blighted academics at Harvard. Obviously, there are no other hidden agendas at play. (Implied criticism of DEI or anything like that.) Our comments are based solely on scholarship pure & simple.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 22, 2023 16:43:30 GMT -5
There might be some amount of exposing complete frauds for what they are and exposing academia for becoming a complete joke in this country because it’s only interested in pursuing an oppressor/oppressed narrative rather than educating young people to solve problems, think critically and judge people based on the “content of their character.”*
*This is taken from Dr. Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech given on August 28, 1963 in Washington DC.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 22, 2023 17:32:16 GMT -5
I am an outsider and admit to no expertise on the complex issues of plagiarism. It is entirely Harvard's decision and not to be decided by grand standing politicians. Too much political parodying to make me comfortable. Instead of an academic issue plagiarism has become a mantra for some to call for the overturn of current university dynamics and replace said with their own biases. Harvard is not about to become Sunnyside Queens on the Charles. I do consider her initial response to anti-semitism at Harvard reprehensible. However, some have seized on the plagiarism issue as a means to achieve her destruction in their effort to remake Harvard & other universities in their own politically/morally bankrupt image. Nonetheless, it seems to me that President Gay is in an untenable position. Her apparent insensitivity and blindness to the effects of antisemetic behaviors on students and issues of her scholarship can only lead to one conclusion. She should resign or induced to do so if necessary. Expect she will be gone. Happy holidays.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 22, 2023 18:23:43 GMT -5
There might be some amount of exposing complete frauds for what they are and exposing academia for becoming a complete joke in this country because it’s only interested in pursuing an oppressor/oppressed narrative rather than educating young people to solve problems, think critically and judge people based on the “content of their character.”* *This is taken from Dr. Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech given on August 28, 1963 in Washington DC. Good point. And looking at Harvard, they publicly clung to their race based admissions decisions to the bitter end and quite plainly spoke of their affinity for (racial) diversity over academic merit. What we could be seeing now, vis a vis the Harvard Board, is a renewal of that struggle -- albeit on a different front. (And, of course, it is well within their favored oppressor/oppressed construct.)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 22, 2023 20:18:56 GMT -5
Reports are that Obama got involved behind the scenes and pushed to keep Gay as president.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 22, 2023 20:34:14 GMT -5
Reports? Vague? Since we're on a scholarly bend on this thread. Exact quote? What are the sources of the reports.Reliable? Of course if President Obama, the Great says it, it must be so! Have these reports been authenticated. Are these reports from a particular position? Left? Right? Actually, as to President Obama, no matter his popularity, I would guess his stance on Gay is of little import to most. I would interpret a non-answer as an admission.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Dec 22, 2023 22:28:20 GMT -5
Amazing that some people are so laser focused on this. That's the game plan, unfortunately.
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Post by Dean Wormer on Dec 23, 2023 9:04:25 GMT -5
Locking the thread. It's been far too long since there was any discussion of PVR's letter and has become a bit too partisan.
Personally, I don't care if Claudine Gay took the speeches of Robert Mugabe and published them word for word as her dissertation, that's a Harvard problem not a Holy Cross problem and definitely not for this board.
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