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Post by hchoops on Feb 4, 2018 14:23:19 GMT -5
I have very high expectations that Caleb Green will be a very strong contributor over his career--maybe not another TT or JM, but I I certainly expect that he will eclipse Pat Doherty. Pat showed great promise as a freshman and he was a fine playmaker, but his shooting percentage after freshman season was sub-optimal. For his career he shot .299 on threes and .379 on twos. To date Caleb Green is hitting .302 on threes (PD was at .377 as a freshman) and .487 on twos. I would be big $$$ that over his career CG's shooting percentage on both twos and threes will be considerably higher than PD's. Here's a funny stat: as a freshman Pat Doherty had 69 assists against 42 turnovers; season-to-date CG is at 68 vs 42. I'll have to check on some defensive measures as well, but I certainly think Caleb is "on the level of" Pat Doherty. I do recognize that PD has significant health issues. As far as AB and JG go--I think they are well beyond the status of "showing flashes"....... Valid comparison. You should have mentioned Pat’s physical issues earlier in the comparison. He played many games hurt that most would have sat out. I hope CG can match Pat’s 4 year competitiveness.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 4, 2018 14:26:25 GMT -5
PD was one of the toughest players on that team. He did play when others would have sat out some PL games. I look at what might have been and I feel for him because I'll bet it still bothers him.
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Post by possum on Feb 4, 2018 14:29:54 GMT -5
The real referendum on Carmody is coming next year, returning the full roster with a POY candidate and by far the best returning big man in the league, coupled with Bucknell losing the big three there is no reason this team shouldn't compete for the league title. Agree with BBC the team is not setup for continued success with JF graduating after next year then integrating another bunch of freshmen somehow need to start balancing out the roster.
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2018 14:40:16 GMT -5
People on this Board overrate the scoring aspect. Rebounding and defense is why we have such a sh*tty record. One of our wing defenders keeps trying to make glory steals. Yesterday he gave up three hoops much to CBC's chagrin.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 4, 2018 14:41:10 GMT -5
Green showed some flashes earlier this year, but I don’t believe that he is on the level of Jave Meade, Torey Thomas, or Pat Doherty. It's insulting to Jave and Torey that you would group Pat Dohery with them. If we are to use Ken Pomeroy's ORtg, Pat declined each year: 97.6, 95.7, 93.2, 90.0. Yes, I know he was hindered with injuries for his junior and senior seasons, but let's not make him out to be anymore more than a steady PG who was capable of managing the offense. He couldn't put the ball through the basket for his entire career, exhibited by shooting 30.6% 3PT, and 38.4% 2PT.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 4, 2018 14:43:13 GMT -5
Agree with BBC the team is not setup for continued success with JF graduating after next year then integrating another bunch of freshmen somehow need to start balancing out the roster. We are already looking to the 2019-20 season? Sheesh! There are so many unknowns. Who would have thought that Floyd would be having the season he is having as a junior after watching him play as a freshman.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 4, 2018 14:55:14 GMT -5
Has Matt Faw already reached his potential? He'll be around 2 years from now, won't he?
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Post by lou on Feb 4, 2018 15:01:12 GMT -5
So this year we're battling for 7th place, next year we have a POY candidate and best big man in the league and battling for the championship, then we stink again ... comical
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2018 15:03:37 GMT -5
Not comical, distressing.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 4, 2018 15:06:38 GMT -5
Has Matt Faw already reached his potential? He'll be around 2 years from now, won't he? Shooting .483 from 3
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2018 15:15:18 GMT -5
I have very high expectations that Caleb Green will be a very strong contributor over his career--maybe not another TT or JM, but I I certainly expect that he will eclipse Pat Doherty. Pat showed great promise as a freshman and he was a fine playmaker, but his shooting percentage after freshman season was sub-optimal. For his career he shot .299 on threes and .379 on twos. To date Caleb Green is hitting .302 on threes (PD was at .377 as a freshman) and .487 on twos. I would be big $$$ that over his career CG's shooting percentage on both twos and threes will be considerably higher than PD's. Here's a funny stat: as a freshman Pat Doherty had 69 assists against 42 turnovers; season-to-date CG is at 68 vs 42. I'll have to check on some defensive measures as well, but I certainly think Caleb is "on the level of" Pat Doherty. I do recognize that PD has significant health issues. As far as AB and JG go--I think they are well beyond the status of "showing flashes"....... Didnt Pat played sparingly at the point as a frosh (behind Torey) and spend most of his time at the 2? That team also finished the year 25-7, #66 on KenPom, beat Notre Dame in the NIT, and would have THROTTLED the current HC team.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2018 15:16:49 GMT -5
People on this Board overrate the scoring aspect. Rebounding and defense is why we have such a sh*tty record. One of our wing defenders keeps trying to make glory steals. Yesterday he gave up three hoops much to CBC's chagrin. +100
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2018 15:17:00 GMT -5
Matt gets few minutes with a .483. Why? Could speed be a problem? Rather thin for a big. See him as a complementary big, never our primary big. Gonna need to hit the weight room.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2018 15:19:12 GMT -5
Green showed some flashes earlier this year, but I don’t believe that he is on the level of Jave Meade, Torey Thomas, or Pat Doherty. It's insulting to Jave and Torey that you would group Pat Dohery with them. If we are to use Ken Pomeroy's ORtg, Pat declined each year: 97.6, 95.7, 93.2, 90.0. Yes, I know he was hindered with injuries for his junior and senior seasons, but let's not make him out to be anymore more than a steady PG who was capable of managing the offense. He couldn't put the ball through the basket for his entire career, exhibited by shooting 30.6% 3PT, and 38.4% 2PT. My bad. Should have said: “I don’t believe he is on the level of Jave or Torey, or even on the level of Pat Doherty.” Pat could hardly walk by the end of his career due to his injuries. But he had a toughness, swagger, leadership and winning attitude about him (starting in his Frosh year) that Green has a loooong way to go to reach.
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2018 15:19:24 GMT -5
I have very high expectations that Caleb Green will be a very strong contributor over his career--maybe not another TT or JM, but I I certainly expect that he will eclipse Pat Doherty. Pat showed great promise as a freshman and he was a fine playmaker, but his shooting percentage after freshman season was sub-optimal. For his career he shot .299 on threes and .379 on twos. To date Caleb Green is hitting .302 on threes (PD was at .377 as a freshman) and .487 on twos. I would be big $$$ that over his career CG's shooting percentage on both twos and threes will be considerably higher than PD's. Here's a funny stat: as a freshman Pat Doherty had 69 assists against 42 turnovers; season-to-date CG is at 68 vs 42. I'll have to check on some defensive measures as well, but I certainly think Caleb is "on the level of" Pat Doherty. I do recognize that PD has significant health issues. As far as AB and JG go--I think they are well beyond the status of "showing flashes"....... Didnt Pat played sparingly at the point as a frosh (behind Torey) and spend most of his time at the 2? That team also finished the year 25-7, #66 on KenPom, beat Notre Dame in the NIT, and would have THROTTLED the current HC team. Pat declined due to injury and fall off in supporting cast. The W+M coach Shaver said, after we beat them down there, "those were the three toughest guards we will play all year, I hope."
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 4, 2018 15:21:45 GMT -5
Matt gets few minutes with a .483. Why? Could speed be a problem? Rather thin for a big. See him as a complementary big, never our primary big. Gonna need to hit the weight room. This could have been an evaluation of JF 2 years ago, outside of speed.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 4, 2018 15:24:12 GMT -5
Matt gets few minutes with a .483. Why? Could speed be a problem? Rather thin for a big. See him as a complementary big, never our primary big. Gonna need to hit the weight room. He has several years to do just that.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 4, 2018 15:26:47 GMT -5
But he had a toughness, swagger, leadership and winning attitude about him (starting in his Frosh year) that Green has a loooong way to go to reach. So when you're wrong, let's just point to intangibles. I don't really care about Pat's swagger when he couldn't put the ball in the basket. You know about the preceding attributes related to Green how? You're not at practices or in the locker room or even go to games. You know Green based on what you see on the Patriot League Network. Come on. You're reaching. The many good points you make about Carmody, the team, and program as a whole are cheapened when you overrate a player from the RW era to knock down one from the 2017-18 Crusaders.
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Post by possum on Feb 4, 2018 15:35:16 GMT -5
JF is an athletic freak who has developed some basketball skills to add to his athleticism. This combination makes him lethal in a low mid major league like the PL. MF has some nice offensive skills but needs a lot of work on other aspects of his game. I think he will be a very good player but not the dominant player JF has become. You can't teach the kind of athleticism JF possesses. Lets enjoy next year because in two years we'll be saying just wait until these freshmen are sophomores again.
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Post by ncaam on Feb 4, 2018 15:42:02 GMT -5
Matt gets few minutes with a .483. Why? Could speed be a problem? Rather thin for a big. See him as a complementary big, never our primary big. Gonna need to hit the weight room. He has several years to do just that. I like MF. He is not in the soph class category. He is just the perfect example of why .483 ain’t everything. Would love to see two bigs like Malachi playing with the JF of this year. That’s why we can’t have misses like the soph class. Bucknell hits it out of the park most years, that’s why we are not competitive with them any more.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 4, 2018 15:46:42 GMT -5
It's gotten to the point where no team is. Bucknell has either won the PLC or been regular season champions (I'm including the 2017-18 season here because they are well on their way) in seven of the past eight seasons.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 4, 2018 15:47:30 GMT -5
But he had a toughness, swagger, leadership and winning attitude about him (starting in his Frosh year) that Green has a loooong way to go to reach. So when you're wrong, let's just point to intangibles. I don't really care about Pat's swagger when he couldn't put the ball in the basket. You know about the preceding attributes related to Green how? You're not at practices or in the locker room or even go to games. You know Green based on what you see on the Patriot League Network. Come on. You're reaching. The many good points you make about Carmody, the team, and program as a whole are cheapened when you overrate a player from the RW era to knock down one from the 2017-18 Crusaders. You are correct in that I know only what I can see from watching the PL Network on Green, but I’d love to be proven wrong. Simple question - if you had to start your team would it be with Doherty or Green? As a point of reference, Bob McKillop wanted Doherty as the PG of Steph Curry’s teams at Davidson.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 4, 2018 16:16:20 GMT -5
I'm very cautious about forecasting the careers of freshmen. KCope and CN get the fewest number of minutes of any of the frosh......for all we know they could end up having the strongest 4 years.
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Post by ericobeyyourthirst on Feb 4, 2018 16:41:55 GMT -5
So when you're wrong, let's just point to intangibles. I don't really care about Pat's swagger when he couldn't put the ball in the basket. You know about the preceding attributes related to Green how? You're not at practices or in the locker room or even go to games. You know Green based on what you see on the Patriot League Network. Come on. You're reaching. The many good points you make about Carmody, the team, and program as a whole are cheapened when you overrate a player from the RW era to knock down one from the 2017-18 Crusaders. You are correct in that I know only what I can see from watching the PL Network on Green, but I’d love to be proven wrong. Simple question - if you had to start your team would it be with Doherty or Green? As a point of reference, Bob McKillop wanted Doherty as the PG of Steph Curry’s teams at Davidson. Really setting the bar high here on a comparison, huh? Pat was a tough, gritty, statistically average player. We all know injuries set him back, but the stats are the stats for his four years at HC....
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 4, 2018 16:51:46 GMT -5
Speaking of the freshmen----Looking just at offense, using only Ken Pomeroy's "O-Rating", here's how our current freshmen stack up against HC freshmen of the past. I looked only at freshmen who played 30% or more of a team's minutes. Of course, we know the current freshmen's numbers will change with additional games and that this measure takes only offense into account
119.7= Anthony Thompson-- before you dispute this, take a look at his freshman extraordinary numbers, e.g. .414 3 PT FG PCTG, #21 in Div-1 on free throw rate, etc 106.3= Keith Simmons 105.4= Austin Butler 102.1= Karl Charles 100.3= Eric Meister 99.5= Nate Lufkin 98.7= Jacob Grandison 97.8= Matt Faw (has played 27% of minutes but I thought I'd include him) 97.6= Pat Doherty 92.9= Devin Brown 92.9= R.J. Evans 92.6= Caleb Green 92.2= Torey Thomas 90.8= Alex Vander Baan 90.7= Kevin Hamilton 88.6= Cullen Hamilton 88.5= Justin Burrell 87.9= Colin Cunningham 86.5= Matt Zignorski 86.3= Malachi Alexander 81.8=Andrew Beinert
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