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Post by hchoops on Jul 4, 2019 22:00:38 GMT -5
If this is Nelson being unwilling to kiss the arses of guys who finished in last place in the PL last year, then I am even more impressed with the hire. Didn't Green opt to transfer prior to Nelson being hired? Yes, but bbc doesn’t care if facts get in the way of his diatribe and Carmody vendetta
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 4, 2019 22:01:08 GMT -5
Kearney was worse. Brown - whose players gave Carmody the only success he knew here - wasn't a great coach, but his guys played hard for him all the time, and he (and his staff) had no problems off the court. Other than Joe O'Shea and Steve Carver (medical), I don't recall anybody leaving.
As a recruiter, it's not close.
Carmody brought in twelve scholarship kids who have been part of the team. Three were kicked off, two want to leave, and three have produced virtually nothing on the court. That's pretty abysmal, and may explain why Blossom went so quickly to Nelson in the search.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 4, 2019 22:03:54 GMT -5
But if Brown’s players had given him and not just Carmody success, he would not have been fired. He certainly recruited far better than he coached.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 4, 2019 22:11:30 GMT -5
Carmody didn’t recruit well (not one player he recruited to date has made a 1st, 2nd or 3rd team) and didn’t coach well (28-44 PL record).
I’m not sure what to think of Brett Nelson just yet, but it’s hard to be any worse than we were the past four seasons.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 4, 2019 22:14:00 GMT -5
Kearney was worse. Brown - whose players gave Carmody the only success he knew here - wasn't a great coach, but his guys played hard for him all the time, and he (and his staff) had no problems off the court. Other than Joe O'Shea and Steve Carver (medical), I don't recall anybody leaving. As a recruiter, it's not close. Carmody brought in twelve scholarship kids who have been part of the team. Three were kicked off, two want to leave, and three have produced virtually nothing on the court. That's pretty abysmal, and may explain why Blossom Which players in which games did not play hard for Carmody ? One of the 3 kicked off, one was initially recruited by Brown. of the 3 who have produced virtually nothing, 2 were freshmen.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jul 4, 2019 22:21:59 GMT -5
Didn't Green opt to transfer prior to Nelson being hired? Yes, but bbc doesn’t care if facts get in the way of his diatribe and Carmody vendetta LOL. Carmody won 38.9% of his PL games (worse than Emmet freakin Davis at Colgate) and there were two separate occasions where players were thrown off the team/out of school during his brief tenure. Anyone who is not biased by relationships with him and/or his assistants would say his tenure at HC was a total failure.
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 4, 2019 22:23:41 GMT -5
In a way, I think Regan got a Mulligan with Kearney. He was under the gun to find a replacement for Ralph . . . . fast. Brey sold him a bill of goods. My impression always was Sean basically wanted to be a CEO coach. Dick got a second bite of the apple with Milan and I really don't believe there was a lot of enthusiasm for the hire among the Crusader faithful other than everyone figured he couldn't be worse than SK. That was a pretty low bar which I believe he cleared but just barely. He was a pretty good recruiter and his players loved him but like his successor, he played every opponent the same predictable way. We were spoiled with Ralph who was able to keep any opponent off balance. But when the curtain came down on Milan, my recollection was that most on Crossports were enthusiastic about the Carmody hire with his deep experience and a proven winner at Princeton and who was able to raise the level of play at Northwestern. There were legitimate reasons to be optimistic. He was a Big10 coach; was familiar with recruiting in high academic environments and had a sterling reputation. But outside of his tournament run at the end of his first season, Carmody's teams seemed to never rise to the occasion and pretty consistently fell short of expectations.
Nelson seems to be coming in with a reputation for high potential. And, like Milan, he comes to us with a pretty low bar to clear considering we ended up in last place and our win/loss percentage over the last 10 years is sub .500 where even the perennial weak sisters in the PL have been able to beat us both home and away and unlike some of Ralph's teams, no one "fears" playing us.
If we find that he can keep Caleb and Jacob on the team, it'll be a great start.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 4, 2019 22:27:45 GMT -5
Hoops, I'm not going to mention particular names. The team didn't play hard defensively much of the time, especially in the PL stretch, and they were a bad rebounding team - at both ends - which often looked like the product of collective indifference. I don't blame the players for these deficiencies. I blame a staff that didn't ever seem to have much interest in those aspects of the game.
You want to remember things differently, fine. We have a new coach, and I'm really glad we do.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 4, 2019 22:35:45 GMT -5
If we find that he can keep Caleb and Jacob on the team, it'll be a great start. Even if he can't, it's a fresh start. It shouldn't count against Nelson if he can't persuade them to stay, just as it shouldn't count against Carmody that thee future all-conference players de-committed or left when he took over.
Anybody else who wants out - hope the door don't hit on your way into the portal.
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Post by bison137 on Jul 4, 2019 22:51:07 GMT -5
So, if I get this right, the rumor is that Caleb and Jacob have entered the transfer portal. 1. Not sure this is factual 2. Even if it is true, neither has transferred yet, and may never do so. I am not ready to slit my wrists yet. Still happy for Coach Carmody, his family and the greater Crusader community that he has decided to retire. It is probably good for all concerned whether or not Caleb and/or Jacob leave. I hope not but they have to do what's best for them as they understand what's best. 1, There is a very slim chance it is not factual, but based on VC's track record, it is likely at least a 99% probability that it is true. They clearly have some college coaches or administrators feeding them info and I haven't heard any reports of them listing anyone who actually was not in the portal.. 2. Yes, there is always a chance they will choose to stay.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 5, 2019 2:10:40 GMT -5
In an environment where literally thousands of players have transferred out in the last 5 years........to hang that on the former coach is pretty silly as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 5, 2019 2:13:10 GMT -5
I mean, this must be a first - players transferring (if it even happens) after a new coach is hired.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 5, 2019 4:14:13 GMT -5
Given his high major background, Coach Nelson may end up utilizing the transfer portal himself at some point to bring in some help. Should we question the decision making/character of any incoming transfers? After all, one man's "great get for the program!" is another man's "don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!"
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 5, 2019 5:51:54 GMT -5
I don't blame the players for wanting to leave. I don't blame Carmody for them leaving. I don't blame Carmody for being unable to re-recruit Kostecka, Proctor, and Hahn. I don't blame Nelson if he can't re-recruit Green and Grandison.
To all players past, present, and future who want to leave Holy Cross for any reason whatsoever . . . good-bye and good luck.
I have no idea how the portal process typically plays out, but time is now of the essence. Do we have one scholarship available or three? Is entering the portal tantamount to the players relinquishing their scholarships? Is Holy Cross required to wait for a certain period while they make up their minds? Live period starts next Wednesday, and Nelson has enough on his plate now that he shouldn't have to spend time wooing these guys back onto the team. He'll be hitting the recruiting trail right after the presser - I think it's only fair that he know how many scholarships are available for him to offer by then.
To the extent it's within the ability of the program to influence the chronology of events, I think it's best for all concerned that we bid the two players adieu ASAP, and begin the re-booting in earnest.
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 5, 2019 6:04:09 GMT -5
Is the leverage with the players? what if they show up when classes resume having not participated in summer work outs?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 5, 2019 6:12:53 GMT -5
When there are still hundreds of players in the portal at this time of the year......something not right with the system. I do agree with you WooGray that the program has to start moving forward pronto.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 5, 2019 6:18:07 GMT -5
Can bison137 or somebody in the know please explain how the portal process works and its impact on the status of affected scholarships? Really would like to understand what kind of situation the program is in, and how it gets resolved.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2019 6:27:11 GMT -5
While Coach Nelson doubtlessly did his due diligence and realized the cupboard of returning talent would be pretty bare at HC, replacing Grandison (who showed some real talent at times) won't be easy. For those Crossporters looking for absolute certainty regarding the portal, it ain't there (unless you have access you don't know with 100% certainty who is there and even if you knew a kid was in there you wouldn't know with 100% certainty the kid is actually leaving). That being said, I 100% agree with bison137 : "1, There is a very slim chance it is not factual, but based on VC's track record, it is likely at least a 99% probability that it is true. They clearly have some college coaches or administrators feeding them info and I haven't heard any reports of them listing anyone who actually was not in the portal..
2. Yes, there is always a chance they will choose to stay."
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Post by alum on Jul 5, 2019 6:37:17 GMT -5
Is it possible that
1. The kids know something we don't know about Bill Carmody's departure and are not happy about it.;
2. This (entering the portal and testing the waters) is just something that "kids today" do whenever there is a new coach.
I am assuming that CG knew about the hire before we did.
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 5, 2019 6:38:27 GMT -5
Is the leverage with the players? what if they show up when classes resume having not participated in summer work outs? “If a young person comes in and says 'I’m going to transfer,' the school now is disadvantaged. By definition, they’ve lost a roster spot,” Harlan said. “The moment that you notify the compliance department at your school that you’re at and your name is entered into the NCAA transfer database, the school retains the scholarship. The young person gets the scholarship through that term or semester when the request is made. www.deseretnews.com/article/900078262/utah-college-coaches-ads-weigh-in-on-how-the-ncaa-transfer-portal-is-impac
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Post by HC92 on Jul 5, 2019 6:45:31 GMT -5
The rules are pretty clear that the school can cancel the scholarship at the end of the semester in which a student enters the portal. Because we are not in a semester at the moment, I think the school holds the cards about whether the student who enters the portal will be welcomed back on the first day of classes. There is no point in the school doing anything to tell Caleb and Jacob they can’t come back unless and until Nelson has identified others who want to come who could use those scholarships now.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 5, 2019 6:45:34 GMT -5
Thanks for that info, 6774
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jul 5, 2019 6:53:25 GMT -5
There is no point in the school doing anything to tell Caleb and Jacob they can’t come back unless and until Nelson has identified others who want to come who could use those scholarships now. I don't understand. To "identify others who want to come" would literally require them to verbally commit, would it not? Highly unlikely that will happen over the summer. I don't think it's reasonable to ask Nelson to recruit with handcuffs, if the school does indeed have the ability to resolve the situation by re-claiming the scholarships now.
And, by the way, there are over fifty 2020 kids the previous regime expressed interest in.
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Post by hcpride on Jul 5, 2019 6:59:02 GMT -5
The rules are pretty clear that the school can cancel the scholarship at the end of the semester in which a student enters the portal. Because we are not in a semester at the moment, I think the school holds the cards about whether the student who enters the portal will be welcomed back on the first day of classes. There is no point in the school doing anything to tell Caleb and Jacob they can’t come back unless and until Nelson has identified others who want to come who could use those scholarships now. GIven the fact that the school gets the schollie back when the kid enters the portal, it is more than quite likely the kid has decided to leave before entering the portal and is not merely testing the waters (a proxy/family member could do that quite effectively) or executing some default move upon the hiring of a new coach. The school then recruits to fill the slot. As a fan, I'd consider a kid entering the portal as gone.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 5, 2019 7:01:28 GMT -5
Bison has cited a few players at Bucknell who returned after entering the portal.
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