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Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 9:35:50 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2019 9:35:50 GMT -5
HEAR HEAR! The HC alum accountants, lawyers, teachers, doctor, brokers don't like these games. The PLAYERS love them. Play these games. With all due respect, unless this was said jokingly I think this statement is an attempt at gross oversimplification, but apart from that it’s largely incorrect, except for the part about the players.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 24, 2019 9:42:52 GMT -5
I don't remember all the details, but I recall that the Syracuse game was originally scheduled to be played very early in the season, and was subsequently moved back (I believe at Syracuse's request). Yes, that is my recollection as well. The game against Syracuse if I remember correctly was the date of the bye week 9/14/19.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2019 9:53:37 GMT -5
HC players are at no greater risk of getting injured against Syracuse than they are against the following week's opponent, Bucknell.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 24, 2019 10:17:29 GMT -5
Arguably, there is less of a chance of injury at the Carrier Dome than many FCS fields due to the quality of the surface. Anyone who ever played at Towson can attest to the injuries occurring on their turf in the late 90's.
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Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 10:32:53 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2019 10:32:53 GMT -5
HC players are at no greater risk of getting injured against Syracuse than they are against the following week's opponent, Bucknell. Yeah. Ok.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 24, 2019 10:47:58 GMT -5
HC players are at no greater risk of getting injured against Syracuse than they are against the following week's opponent, Bucknell. Yeah. Ok. Joe - not sure I understand your position. Cuse will be slightly larger (1" and 10-15 pounds or so on average), and slightly faster (.1 in the 40 or so on average). They will have much more depth. They will have more team skill. However, they are not super mutants. They will win, probably without a sweat. The only reasons they will win easily are: team depth (they have 10 great players or each one of our great players) and our offensive coaching. We have players that would get PT there and they have players on the bench that would not start at HC.
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Post by lou on Sept 24, 2019 11:05:50 GMT -5
It's the 10-15 lb average size difference that has me concerned, especially the guys who bring that average up
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 24, 2019 11:07:12 GMT -5
Joe - not sure I understand your position. Cuse will be slightly larger (1" and 10-15 pounds or so on average), and slightly faster (.1 in the 40 or so on average). They will have much more depth. They will have more team skill. However, they are not super mutants. They will win, probably without a sweat. The only reasons they will win easily are: team depth (they have 10 great players or each one of our great players) and our offensive coaching. We have players that would get PT there and they have players on the bench that would not start at HC. Yes, this is not like a Chevy Suburban running into a Ford Escort. Let's not overthink this. Doesn't Syracuse have some players who are on the smaller or slower end of the Syracuse spectrum? Do they get injured in every practice?
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Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 11:22:05 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2019 11:22:05 GMT -5
I suppose it’s a partly a philosophical question, partly a scientific one, so it’s hard to use hard data. I would postulate that these little differences add up across many players, and over the course of 4 quarters are further magnified by variables like momentum, fatigue, and possibly frustration, especially on the road.
Again, I like these games, and was a vocal proponent of restoring the BC game. My feeling is that this game against Syracuse, at this point in the season, is not ideal, injuries or not.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 24, 2019 11:28:00 GMT -5
It's the 10-15 lb average size difference that has me concerned, especially the guys who bring that average up They can only play 11 at a time. Of their 11 rostered OL weighing over 300lb, they only start 3. Their starting skill players on offense are all under 200, except QB at 212. Starting LB's are from 200-225. s3.amazonaws.com/suathletics.com/documents/2019/9/23/Holy_Cross.pdf
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Post by hc87 on Sept 24, 2019 12:03:19 GMT -5
A few things:
Yes the scheduling of this game is suboptimal . It was scheduled about 4 or 5 years ago I believe with the thinking we'd be much farther along in our restoration so to speak as a stronger scholarship FCS program. While that is hopefully still the case, for a variety of reasons, that time-line has been pushed back a bit.
Even in the Eddie Anderson part deux era, programs like Penn St and Syracuse routinely beat us handily. Yes, we had a couple wins and close contests against them, but more often than not they were blowout losses.Point being, I don't think there is substantive difference between HC playing Syracuse then and now.
Lastly, in the immortal words of President Kennedy: "Why does Rice play Texas?"
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Post by hc89 on Sept 24, 2019 12:27:18 GMT -5
HEAR HEAR! The HC alum accountants, lawyers, teachers, doctor, brokers don't like these games. The PLAYERS love them. Play these games. I can only speak for one (non-player) lawyer, be he LOVES these games- especially the games against BC!
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Post by gks on Sept 24, 2019 12:28:35 GMT -5
A few things: Yes the scheduling of this game is suboptimal . It was scheduled about 4 or 5 years ago I believe with the thinking we'd be much farther along in our restoration so to speak as a stronger scholarship FCS program. While that is hopefully still the case, for a variety of reasons, that time-line has been pushed back a bit. Even in the Eddie Anderson part deux era, programs like Penn St and Syracuse routinely beat us handily. Yes, we had a couple wins and close contests against them, but more often than not they were blowout losses.Point being, I don't think there is substantive difference between HC playing Syracuse then and now. Lastly, in the immortal words of President Kennedy: "Why does Rice play Texas?" You forgot the money aspect. That is a factor that cannot be ignored. Just part of doing business as a scholarship FCS. One question for those who don't want these FBS games. Do you feel the same way about basketball? Maryland will absolutely be bigger, stronger and faster than HC and yes...way more physical. There is nothing wrong with a step up game. It's called challenging yourself.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2019 12:52:54 GMT -5
HEAR HEAR! The HC alum accountants, lawyers, teachers, doctor, brokers don't like these games. The PLAYERS love them. Play these games. I can only speak for one (non-player) lawyer, be he LOVES these games- especially the games against BC! Count me as ateacher who is a supporter for a game like this one every year - with 2 in some years.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 24, 2019 13:26:52 GMT -5
I highly doubt we will schedule another P5 program before 2024 (the next allowable FCS 12-game year). Believe me, I'm not advocating that HC be a barnstorming program taking on the likes of Texas, Georgia (though we are 3-0 against them ), Ohio St et. al. ....but every few years a game against either an historic P5 FBS rival (BC, Syracuse, Rutgers etc) or a like-minded academic (Duke, Rice, Northwestern etc) mixed in (in different years) with Army, Navy, UMass, Buffalo etc. would be good for the program imo.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 24, 2019 13:56:15 GMT -5
Joe - not sure I understand your position. Cuse will be slightly larger (1" and 10-15 pounds or so on average), and slightly faster (.1 in the 40 or so on average). They will have much more depth. They will have more team skill. However, they are not super mutants. They will win, probably without a sweat. The only reasons they will win easily are: team depth (they have 10 great players or each one of our great players) and our offensive coaching. We have players that would get PT there and they have players on the bench that would not start at HC. You are so definite in your qualitative and quantitive analysis of comparative size, speed, depth and overall quality of the players. Offensive coaching as a factor integral to our losing to SU? Isn't that a bit of a gratuitous insult ? How do you know? How can you be so definitive in your opinion? In your opinion... Peace. LoveHC At this point, I assume you have this response on a separate doc and just paste it in to every post. What type of quantitative analysis would you like to see, the size of each player's foot compared to their positional counterparts? I believe the basis of the likely to get "injured" is size and speed, i.e. excessive force in a given collision is a basis for injury (excepting non-contact injuries that affect teams indiscriminately) If we can agree that: A. Every player on the field for either team (or any given game in FBS or FCS) weighs between about 175 - 315 (with a few exceptions) and every player on the field runs a 40 from 4.3/4.4 - 5.1/5.2 and have similar cone drill times ranges; and B. F = M x A Then: C. One team is not playing with much more force than the other team and thus is not more likely to result in contact caused injury But that is just my analysis. These are not opinions. These are facts: 1. They have more depth and team skill (across the board). 2. Their players are slightly bigger and/or slightly faster and/or slightly better on average than our players. Their LB's are not running 4.3 /40's. Their starting RB is not running a 4.1/40 weighing 225 lbs. Their linemen are not 400 lbs. They are just slightly "more" (on average) and there are more of them. PERIOD. 3. Our offensive coordinator is a terrible play-caller. PERIOD.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2019 14:27:33 GMT -5
Good on points 1 and 2. Point 3 is your opinion (to which you are entitled) not an established fact. PERIOD. (Adding that in IMHO weakens your overall argument.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 14:35:22 GMT -5
Good on points 1 and 2. Point 3 is your opinion (to which you are entitled) not an established fact. PERIOD. (Adding that in IMHO weakens your overall argument.) Nope, that’s a fact. Can’t be more clear after 14 games
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2019 14:37:11 GMT -5
Point 3 is your opinion (to which you are entitled) not an established fact. PERIOD. Scoring two offensive touchdowns in 12 quarters of football would lead most to believe that the OC isn't a very good play caller.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 24, 2019 14:43:18 GMT -5
Point 3 is your opinion (to which you are entitled) not an established fact. PERIOD. Scoring two offensive touchdowns in 12 quarters of football would lead most to believe that the OC isn't a very good play caller. Not believe. It is empirical evidence thereof.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2019 14:44:50 GMT -5
Still opinion. As to the 14 games, do the HC "wins" count in in that number? That alone would show this is opinion and not fact. When HC came back from trailing a number of times, was it the oc that gave our opponents points and the lead? Of course not. The OC may well be in need of improvement, but when a receiver drops a ball in his hands, that is not on the offensive coordinator.
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Post by rickii on Sept 24, 2019 14:55:49 GMT -5
Rather than hammer any poster's point of view, I'll pose the following to the board for comment....
Can we agree that HC and Colgate are very similar in profile ? Good.
Here's Colgate's future opponents thus far -
2020 - @w. Michigan, @syracuse, @william&Mary 2021 - @furman 2022 - @army, Furman 2027 - @colorado
Here's HC -
2020 - @bc 2021 - @uconn 2022 - @buffalo 2023 - @bc
Now, here's the big difference in OOC scheduling methodology....
Counting 2019, Colgate has only FIVE dates with the Ivys in the future. HC has FIFTEEN ( 15 ) dates with the Ivys.
Other than this season, Colgate apparently is no desire to play a 'local' Ivy rival in Cornell on a regular basis....and maybe visa versa. Aside of 'money games' with Air Force, Syracuse, Army and Colorado, they have pursued multiple dates with Villanova, William & Mary and Furman. Meanwhile HC seems enamored with Harvard, Yale, Brown and Dartmouth going forward.
They got a home and home with Villanova and William & Mary....wish we could. They got on Army's sked....we used to do that. They got on Colorado's sked....we got Buffalo. They've had a successful plan for 15 years....and have recruited better student-athletes than HC.
Done.
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Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 15:17:56 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 24, 2019 15:17:56 GMT -5
Fact check: Colgate did not get a home-and-home with William & Mary. They got a road-road-and-road.
Not sure how that made any sense but it happened. In other news, I must be living under a rock because its the first I've heard of the Buffalo game. Hoping we catch them on a rebuild and get a W.
Also is the Colgate-Cornell series really suspended or have the dates just not been posted yet? They've played every year since...forever?
Colgate plays less Ivy games than us in general due to geography. We're right in the middle of Yale, Brown, Harvard and Dartmouth and have longstanding series with those schools.
Colgate and Dartmouth had a series going not too far back but if you remember 10-12 years ago Dartmouth stunk at football. They made the choice to take UNH and Colgate off the schedule in favor of the likes of Sacred Heart and Jacksonville, among others. Needless to say, The Big Green have made a comeback but Colgate hasn't returned to the schedule.
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Post by 6sader7 on Sept 24, 2019 15:33:49 GMT -5
We all know this is going to be a tough game, but my biggest fear will be our offensive gameplan going into it.
Please, for the love of god, install some semblance of a downhill power run game and rotate the rb's throughout the game.
If we can even put ourselves in 3rd and 5-6 type situations we'll be in a much better spot than we have been in similar games, it was also allow us to maybe have some success with our passing game, maybe we'll even be able to run some play action.
The defense just needs to strap it up and come to play again - They're going to try to wear us down up front so the less time our unit spends on the field in the first half the better...
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Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 15:36:08 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2019 15:36:08 GMT -5
The way the Ivies have learned to massage their financial aid they are on the upswing so there may not be as big a gap between the CU schedule and our schedule going forward and our Ivy games are all or mostly home/away series.
Bill and Mary offer a warm water port for the Red Raiders but a three away game series against another FCS team is not a feather in the cap.
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