|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2019 15:45:56 GMT -5
You are so definite in your qualitative and quantitive analysis of comparative size, speed, depth and overall quality of the players. Offensive coaching as a factor integral to our losing to SU? Isn't that a bit of a gratuitous insult ? How do you know? How can you be so definitive in your opinion? In your opinion... Peace. LoveHC At this point, I assume you have this response on a separate doc and just paste it in to every post. What type of quantitative analysis would you like to see, the size of each player's foot compared to their positional counterparts? I believe the basis of the likely to get "injured" is size and speed, i.e. excessive force in a given collision is a basis for injury (excepting non-contact injuries that affect teams indiscriminately) If we can agree that: A. Every player on the field for either team (or any given game in FBS or FCS) weighs between about 175 - 315 (with a few exceptions) and every player on the field runs a 40 from 4.3/4.4 - 5.1/5.2 and have similar cone drill times ranges; and B. F = M x A Then: C. One team is not playing with much more force than the other team and thus is not more likely to result in contact caused injury But that is just my analysis. These are not opinions. These are facts: 1. They have more depth and team skill (across the board). 2. Their players are slightly bigger and/or slightly faster and/or slightly better on average than our players. Their LB's are not running 4.3 /40's. Their starting RB is not running a 4.1/40 weighing 225 lbs. Their linemen are not 400 lbs. They are just slightly "more" (on average) and there are more of them. PERIOD. 3. Our offensive coordinator is a terrible play-caller. PERIOD. Hard to argue with #3, but if the QB was quicker and less timid executing the plays they would have to have somewhat of a better result. I have no criticism of CD, he's only played three games, but watching the plays develop deep in our backfield it's like watching a slow motion replay. We've got to get quicker as all the players have more experience executing plays, especially against Syracuse.
|
|
|
Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 17:10:35 GMT -5
via mobile
efg72 likes this
Post by hcgrad94 on Sept 24, 2019 17:10:35 GMT -5
Rather than hammer any poster's point of view, I'll pose the following to the board for comment.... Can we agree that HC and Colgate are very similar in profile ? Good. Here's Colgate's future opponents thus far - 2020 - @w. Michigan, @syracuse, @william&Mary 2021 - @furman 2022 - @army, Furman 2027 - @colorado Here's HC - 2020 - @bc 2021 - @uconn 2022 - @buffalo 2023 - @bc Now, here's the big difference in OOC scheduling methodology.... Counting 2019, Colgate has only FIVE dates with the Ivys in the future. HC has FIFTEEN ( 15 ) dates with the Ivys. Other than this season, Colgate apparently is no desire to play a 'local' Ivy rival in Cornell on a regular basis....and maybe visa versa. Aside of 'money games' with Air Force, Syracuse, Army and Colorado, they have pursued multiple dates with Villanova, William & Mary and Furman. Meanwhile HC seems enamored with Harvard, Yale, Brown and Dartmouth going forward. They got a home and home with Villanova and William & Mary....wish we could. They got on Army's sked....we used to do that. They got on Colorado's sked....we got Buffalo. They've had a successful plan for 15 years....and have recruited better student-athletes than HC. Done. Hate to tell you but HYP are just as good as those CAA teams. Done.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Sept 24, 2019 18:10:11 GMT -5
Rather than hammer any poster's point of view, I'll pose the following to the board for comment.... Can we agree that HC and Colgate are very similar in profile ? Good. Here's Colgate's future opponents thus far - 2020 - @w. Michigan, @syracuse, @william&Mary 2021 - @furman 2022 - @army, Furman 2027 - @colorado Here's HC - 2020 - @bc 2021 - @uconn 2022 - @buffalo 2023 - @bc Now, here's the big difference in OOC scheduling methodology.... Counting 2019, Colgate has only FIVE dates with the Ivys in the future. HC has FIFTEEN ( 15 ) dates with the Ivys. Other than this season, Colgate apparently is no desire to play a 'local' Ivy rival in Cornell on a regular basis....and maybe visa versa. Aside of 'money games' with Air Force, Syracuse, Army and Colorado, they have pursued multiple dates with Villanova, William & Mary and Furman. Meanwhile HC seems enamored with Harvard, Yale, Brown and Dartmouth going forward. They got a home and home with Villanova and William & Mary....wish we could. They got on Army's sked....we used to do that. They got on Colorado's sked....we got Buffalo. They've had a successful plan for 15 years....and have recruited better student-athletes than HC. Done. Hate to tell you but HYP are just as good as those CAA teams. Done. I would argue the top four in the Ivies are as good or better than the top 4 CAA in talent
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 24, 2019 19:12:15 GMT -5
I've always loved playing Harvard, Dartmouth, and Brown as traditional rivals and the occasional game against unbeatable (5-29 series) Yale. As their programs have improved, in my opinion, it's even more appealing to play these traditional rivals that are just a bus ride away. I'd much rather play Harvard than any CAA team.
Of course, I'd rather play CAA teams than Sacred Heard, Central Connecticut, Marist, or Siena
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 19:12:32 GMT -5
FBS - to play or not to play that is the question. In my opinion, and this is not a fact (or is it?), the difference in opinion( or, is it fact) on whether or not to play FBS teams comes down to this: Those against the FBS games are primarily looking at the game itself. The intrinsic value of the game experience in and of itself. In our view, chances are great to the point of near inevitability that the game will be a blowout - ugly, lousy to watch unless you enjoy watching HC get pilloried. There might be a greater risk of injury and certainly some might feel these blowout losses would be an embarrassment to the team and to the school. We say to what end? Why subject the team and the school to this? Those in favor of FBS games are primarily looking at the externalities - the extra money, the boost in recruitment and the big time hoopla surrounding a game against an FBS opponent. For instance some really enjoyed the atmosphere in Chestnut Hill and Annapolis and in all likelihood, they look forward to the big game/time feel in the Carrier Dome. And, truth be told they do hold out hope that somehow HC will upset one of the big boys or at least give them a good run for the money. Who knows, we may win? That's why they put on the cleats. As for the players, obviously they will want to play anyone, anytime any where and the bigger the better. These are terrific guys. But, the schedule is not a players decision. The HC players will play all games against any opponent big or small with enthusiasm and hope. The Ivies do not play FBS teams yet their players are enthusiastic enough to defeat HC. I will leave Ivy recruiting without FBS games to the side. Maybe these views are an oversimplification. Obviously we all want to see HC do well. I leave it to the all knowing cognoscenti to decide whether this post is factual or an expression of opinion. LoveHC Fact: Holy Cross is not an Ivy League School and WILL NEVER be an Ivy League School Fact: Holy Cross needs to build their own identity in the FCS which should ALWAYS include playing FBS and CAA Teams
|
|
|
Post by lehighowl on Sept 24, 2019 19:12:32 GMT -5
Rather than hammer any poster's point of view, I'll pose the following to the board for comment.... Can we agree that HC and Colgate are very similar in profile ? Good. Here's Colgate's future opponents thus far - 2020 - @w. Michigan, @syracuse, @william&Mary 2021 - @furman 2022 - @army, Furman 2027 - @colorado Here's HC - 2020 - @bc 2021 - @uconn 2022 - @buffalo 2023 - @bc Now, here's the big difference in OOC scheduling methodology.... Counting 2019, Colgate has only FIVE dates with the Ivys in the future. HC has FIFTEEN ( 15 ) dates with the Ivys. Other than this season, Colgate apparently is no desire to play a 'local' Ivy rival in Cornell on a regular basis....and maybe visa versa. Aside of 'money games' with Air Force, Syracuse, Army and Colorado, they have pursued multiple dates with Villanova, William & Mary and Furman. Meanwhile HC seems enamored with Harvard, Yale, Brown and Dartmouth going forward. They got a home and home with Villanova and William & Mary....wish we could. They got on Army's sked....we used to do that. They got on Colorado's sked....we got Buffalo. They've had a successful plan for 15 years....and have recruited better student-athletes than HC. Done. Holy Cross's future schedules are actually quite attractive and practical. As others have said, the top of the Ivies are basically just as good as the top of the CAA/FCS at this point. Colgate is simply going the barnstorming route and praying they catch lightning in a bottle every 4-5 years in order to compete. Most years they're scheduling way over their head. Their OOC results the last 7-8 years clearly indicate that. They opted to cancel a home game with Cal Poly in order to play Western Michigan next year. Why the hell do you drop a FCS game against a Big Sky opponent to play WMU in Kalamazoo Michigan at wonderful Waldo Stadium? What are they trying to prove/accomplish by making the swap? Cal Poly is a great OOC game!! To get them in Hamilton would have been pretty sweet! Buffalo is a good FBS get for HC. I was up there this past weekend for the Temple game. (What a mess that was for my Owls) The campus is hideous, stadium a concrete eye-sore with a track but the team is pretty good. Western NY is a great area so it more than made up for the game. It's an easy drive out 90 for you Mass folks so I'd take definitely make the trek. I was there in 2002 when Lehigh beat the Bulls. Great memory watching LU football!!
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Sept 24, 2019 19:47:49 GMT -5
Do the Ivies play CAA teams. If not, it might be fun to see some of those games especially the top Ivies HYP and Dartmouth against the top CAA teams. Yes....not a lot but yes. Top of my head : Yale beat Maine last year. Penn almost beat Delaware last week. Dartmouth and UNH have restarted their series. Harvard played URI last year. Yale is playing Richmond later this season.
|
|
|
Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 20:16:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 24, 2019 20:16:33 GMT -5
Do the Ivies play CAA teams. If not, it might be fun to see some of those games especially the top Ivies HYP and Dartmouth against the top CAA teams. Yes....not a lot but yes. Top of my head : Yale beat Maine last year. Penn almost beat Delaware last week. Dartmouth and UNH have restarted their series. Harvard played URI last year. Yale is playing Richmond later this season. Dartmouth has played both UNH and Towson of late (beating both). URI salvaged a split in its 4-game series with Harvard after losing the first two like 52-0. Brown plays URI annually which tends to be a fairly even series. They also had a recent series with Stony Brook. Penn plays Nova and William & Mary here and there (UD loss was on a failed 2PT conversion last Sat). Yale used to play UCONN every year when they were in the Yankee Conference, which evevtually became CAA Football. Harvard used to play UMASS and Northeastern occasionally when they each had I-AA football.
|
|
|
Syracuse
Sept 24, 2019 20:23:31 GMT -5
via mobile
alum likes this
Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 24, 2019 20:23:31 GMT -5
While I'm interested in the topic of scheduling myself, any chance the topic switches back to the game?
I won't be making the trip because my girlfriend is due with our daughter in 5 weeks so staying close to the roost.
But Optimum recently added the ACC Network to my package for free so I'll be tuning in.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 25, 2019 23:06:43 GMT -5
I don't know if this has been mentioned before but the game will be available online on ESPN+ as well as the ACC Network on cable.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 26, 2019 5:10:19 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that longsuffering. I temporarily have ESPN+ since watching the Yale game, so this will be a bonus.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 26, 2019 7:22:20 GMT -5
Here is the Syracuse view of Saturday's game (from their website):
SYRACUSE, N.Y. – Syracuse (2-2) concludes its three-week stretch of home games on Saturday with a noon tilt against FCS opponent Holy Cross (1-2) at the Dome. Once a frequent opponent, the Crusaders have not played the Orange since 1973 and will be making their visit to the Loud House. The game will be televised on the ACC Network [and can be seen on ESPN+]. For the second week in a row, Wes Durham, Roddy Jones and Eric Wood have the call.
Holy Cross is coached by Bob Chesney, who is in his second season at the helm. The Crusaders lost their most recent outing to Yale, 23-10. They have not scored more than 13 points in any of their three games. Despite the statistics, Syracuse head coach Dino Babers cautioned that the Crusaders should not be overlooked. "You never know what's going to happen in a football game and you never know who's going to get hurt in a football game," Babers told the media at his weekly press conference. "It's a serious game where the good players are allowed to get tackled and allowed to get hurt. We need to remain focused and locked in, so we can leave this game with the same amount of players that we walked in with." (Apparently this is an issue when playing "undermanned" FCS teams). The Orange stopped their modest two-game losing streak on Saturday with a 52-33 win against Western Michigan. Redshirt sophomore quarterback Tommy DeVito played the best game of his young career, accounting for five touchdowns, including four TD passes. Babers praised DeVito for the growth he's made to date and expects he'll continue to improve. "You spent a lot of time with your starting quarterback, and the more time that we spend together, the better I feel," Babers said. "He's a very calming soul. He's young at heart, but he has a very mature side of him so he's easy to deal with and he's going to continue to get better." DeVito helped loosen up the Western Michigan defense by running for a career-high 85 yards. He sprinted for 60 yards on a designed run on the second play of the game. In the second quarter, DeVito scored a 36-yard touchdown when he saw open space and decided to take off. "That run was him reading what was in front of him. We don't always call those plays, it depends on the structure and who we're playing," Babers said. As a coach, you have to play some chess on whether you like some things, and if we like the matchup, we'll do those things. I'll tell you this, that touchdown run was not designed. That was just him seeing something and taking off, which is really good for us. When we do stuff like that we make ourselves more difficult to defend. " Offensively, the Orange totaled a season-high 545 yards and averaged 6.6 yards per play against the Broncos. On the other side of the ball, the defense forced four turnovers, recorded three sacks, had two forced fumbles, and logged 10 passes defended, including nine breakups. "One thing our defense is doing an outstanding job in is getting turnovers. As long as they keep getting us extra possessions, we're going to have opportunities to win games, so long as we're efficient."
Come Saturday versus Holy Cross another opportunity awaits.
|
|
|
Post by lou on Sept 26, 2019 7:51:22 GMT -5
Of course, I'd rather play CAA teams than... Siena Siena still undefeated in football
|
|
|
Post by purplehaze on Sept 26, 2019 10:35:09 GMT -5
Vivid seats site has tickets available starting at $2
|
|
|
Post by realism on Sept 26, 2019 10:36:02 GMT -5
Can we agree that HC and Colgate are very similar in profile ? Good. I think there is no basis in fact, over the past 2 decades, of a similarty between HC and Colgate. This Board would be well advised to develop a different fantasy,
|
|
|
Post by realism on Sept 26, 2019 10:58:55 GMT -5
Fact: Holy Cross is not an Ivy League School and WILL NEVER be an Ivy League School Fact: Holy Cross needs to build their own identity in the FCS which should ALWAYS include playing FBS and CAA Teams Holy Cross and its alums are hoping, above all, for a new identity.
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Sept 26, 2019 11:22:04 GMT -5
This is a very good pre-game assessment from the Syracuse Post Standard. I was a paperboy for the Post Standard back in the day! syracusepoststandard.ny.newsmemory.com/?publink=0a6a5a3fdHoly Cross offense has struggledSYRACUSE FOOTBALLCrusaders have scored just two TDs in three games Nate Mink nmink@syracuse.com
Syracuse is facing Holy Cross for the first time since 1973. Back then, the football team played its games at rickety Archbold Stadium. Some faculty and student activists wanted to dissolve the program. And the final score was 5-3. So, some things have changed for the better around here. Let’s take a drive-by look at the Crusaders before they make their return to Syracuse for the first time in nearly 50 years. Coach: Bob Chesney Record: 6-8 at Holy Cross (73-33 overall) Chesney is in his second year after successful stints at Division III Salve Regina and Division II Assumption. In his final year at Assumption, he led the Greyhounds to a 11-2 mark, a NCAA Division II quarterfinal appearance and a top-10 final ranking from the American Football Coaches Association The 42-year-old was a four-year defensive back at Dickinson College and is putting together a strong defensive-minded team that should be in position to challenge for a championship in what looks to a be a weak Patriot League. HOLY CROSS CAN MATCH UP IN ONE AREA
Like Syracuse, the Crusaders have a weapon in the kicking game with their punter. Cody Wilkinson has averaged 42.4 yards per punt on the year, including a 68-yarder. Expect to see Wilkinson a lot on Saturday. Syracuse’s Sterling Hofrichter? Plan on him taking plenty of kickoffs. A MOUNTAIN OF A TIGHT ENDOne of Holy Cross’s best players is its tight end. Derek Mountain, a fifth-year senior from Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, is already closing in on his productivity from last year, when he caught 14 passes for 212 yards and four touchdowns. Mountain is listed at 6-foot-5 , 25 1 pounds, walked on to Holy Cross’s basketball team in 2015-16 and was a second team, All-Patriot League pick by Phil Steele last season. He has good hands and can make a catch in traffic. OFFENSIVE ISSUES ABOUNDHoly Cross played without two starters on its offensive line in last week’s 23-10 loss at Yale. In three games, the Crusaders’ offense has managed just two touchdowns. Quarterback Connor Degenhardt and receiver Tenio Ayeni have connected on both scores. Holy Cross has struggled to run the ball through the first month of the season, averaging 2.4 yards per carry. The Crusaders are ranked 114th at the FCS level in rushing offense (72.7 yards per game), 111th in total offense (261 yards per game) and 120th in scoring (10 points per game). Running back Domenic Cozier dealt with an illness at the start of the season but is starting to come into form. He was much better last week at Yale, toting the ball 15 times against the Bulldogs. Dominik Thomas and Ayir Asante join Ayeni as receivers who can make Syracuse pay if they go unmarked. LINEBACKERS ARE YOUNG AND TALENTEDThe Crusaders may be winless if not for a defense that is young and talented in the middle. Holy Cross’s 13-10 victory against New Hampshire on Sept. 7 came on a recovered fumble in the end zone with less than 2 minutes remaining in the game. Holy Cross was driving for the go-ahead score but was stopped 2 yards shy of the goal line and 1 yard shy of a first down on a 4th-and-6 from the 7. On the ensuing play following the turnover on downs, sophomore linebacker Liam Doran knocked the ball loose, and defensive back Joe Lang covered up in the New Hampshire end zone. Doran, a sophomore, is part of a quartet of young linebackers pacing the Crusaders defense. Freshman Jacob Dobbs (team-best 25 tackles) and sophomore Cullen Honohan are two more names to keep in mind, and the staff is high on Liam Anderson as well. KEY MATCHUPHoly Cross brought in Wake Forest transfer quarterback Matt Considine this offseason, but it has been a steeper learning curve for the No. 3 quarterback on the depth chart. Degnenhardt is green in his first year as the starting quarterback but learning by the week. It’s a tall task to hang in there against a relentless Syracuse defensive line and pressure from a fast back seven. More than anything, the Crusaders, 38½-point underdogs, really want to avoid a repeat of last season’s game at Boston College and get out of Saturday afternoon healthy before breaking into Patriot League play the following week at Bucknell.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 26, 2019 11:32:01 GMT -5
"More than anything, the Crusaders, 38½-point underdogs, really want to avoid a repeat of last season’s game at Boston College and get out of Saturday afternoon healthy before breaking into Patriot League play the following week at Bucknell."
Syracuse should be able to win by as many points as they want to win by. The players need to stay healthy, extract some benefit from this game, try to enjoy it on some level, and then put it out of their minds as soon as time expires. Without looking past this little field trip to the Carrier Dome, Bucknell is indeed what matters most to HC at this time.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 26, 2019 11:36:16 GMT -5
The Crusaders are ranked 114th at the FCS level in rushing offense (72.7 yards per game), 111th in total offense (261 yards per game) and 120th in scoring (10 points per game). Not good!
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 26, 2019 11:54:37 GMT -5
Our defense is going to do OK until they get worn down from being on the field all day. I just can't see us suddenly figuring out how to put up points, not against this kind of opponent, not at this stage of their season.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Sept 26, 2019 12:35:13 GMT -5
"More than anything, the Crusaders, 38½-point underdogs, really want to avoid a repeat of last season’s game at Boston College and get out of Saturday afternoon healthy before breaking into Patriot League play the following week at Bucknell." Syracuse should be able to win by as many points as they want to win by. The players need to stay healthy, extract some benefit from this game, try to enjoy it on some level, and then put it out of their minds as soon as time expires. Without looking past this little field trip to the Carrier Dome, Bucknell is indeed what matters most to HC at this time. Our injuries v P5 Boston College were an issue last year? (The way I read it, score is essentially irrelevant as the key is to avoid serious injuries...several posters have already pointed this out although others are convinced injuries are not more likely when playing v bigger. stronger, and faster opponenets)
On another topic it is interesting that those who predicted last year's game v BC would be a painful and one-sided debacle were certainly on the right track and those who predicted the game would be a chance to participate in a game v Boston College proved also to be right. One suspects both sets of folks will be on the right track again this year v Syracuse.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Sept 26, 2019 14:51:45 GMT -5
Good overview...one nitpick, as many know here, the '73 game was at Fitton. The last HC game at Archibald was in '71....a 63-21 defeat....would you take that Saturday???
|
|
|
Syracuse
Sept 26, 2019 15:15:36 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Sept 26, 2019 15:15:36 GMT -5
Good overview...one nitpick, as many know here, the '73 game was at Fitton. The last HC game at Archibald was in '71....a 63-21 defeat....would you take that Saturday??? Three scores by the defense and special teams sounds about right, but would like to keep Syracuse under fifty points.
|
|
|
Post by jkh67 on Sept 26, 2019 20:22:08 GMT -5
I don't have any idea whether any of the pitifully small handful of regulars on this board have played football at HC (or any other college for that matter) or know anyone on the present Crusader squad, but I've got to wonder how many of today's actual players would really trade an FBS stomping...if it happens this Saturday (and I sincerely hope it doesn't)...for the "vivid memories" of playing in the Carrier Dome. Has anyone polled the team about how players felt about the shellacking at BC last year? I expect not. I saw HC many times against Army at Michie "back in the day" and those games were generally competitive and we won our fair share. But, sadly, we're not what we were back then and FBS teams like Army and Navy...not to mention the "Cuse"...are better...much better...than they were then. We have no business playing legitimate FBS schools...impostors like UConn excluded...money be damned. That being said, if today's players really like getting their butts kicked by FBS opponents, have at it! You are out of touch. And how, pray tell, am I out of touch?
|
|
|
Post by jkh67 on Sept 26, 2019 20:27:19 GMT -5
The players are kids who are becoming men. I have come to know many of them. They are, each of them, albeit to varied degrees, warriors. They will play anyone, anytime, any place. That is the warrior mentality. They go into BCS games amped up and wanting to pull an upset and prove they belong on the same field. That being said, it is the responsibility of those in change to ensure their safety and heading into BCS games handicapped by the college, the PL, and asinine scheduling is not ideal. I want to see these guys stay healthy, graduate, and be leaders in their fields, and I view HC football as an incredible learning opportunity that will serve them well later in life. That is the role of engaged alumni and it should augment the efforts of the coaches and administration. But all these kids really know at this point is how to go into battle, whether that’s football or classes. That’s what got them their scholarships and their admission letter. They’re kids. What they are owed is the ability to compete on a somewhat level FCS playing field first, and once that happens, these FBS games would look much more realistic. This Syracuse game is a BCS game at the wrong team at the wrong time. HC went ahead and scheduled it but failed to take the necessary steps to ensure competitiveness and safety. Well said. There were days when we could play teams like Army...and even Syracuse occasionally...on relatively even terms. But those days are long ago and far away, never to return, sadly. It's time to accept that we have no business playing FBS schools and move on.
|
|