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Post by sarasota on Dec 29, 2019 20:35:08 GMT -5
I think my feeling for the MAAC is due to the fact that I grew up in North Jersey, many classmates, relatives and acquaintances went to MAAC schools, so many of my HC classmates were from the greater NYC area, the center of gravity of the MAAC is the greater NYC metro area, where I lived until I moved to New England in '71, most of the MAAC schools are Catholic, and, of lesser importance, that I taught at a MAAC school. I have a sense of familiarity or some kind of connection to them. Maybe today I'm no longer representative of the HC sports constituencies. I think these kind of intangibles can be important to the vitality of a sports conference. And have an important impact on athletic recruitment. I love HC fball. I have countless memories of sitting in Fitton through the decades. But....due to NCAA rules and conference rules, HC fball has become the tail that has been wagging the HC sports dog through the decades, to HC's detriment. All the myriad discussions on this Board over the years about how to fix HC athletics are like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Fball and Bball at HC are at loggerheads. Until we acknowledge that, i.e., say it OUT LOUD, there will be no solution that brings HC into balance.
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Post by Tom on Dec 29, 2019 20:43:30 GMT -5
Absolutely nothing to do with our conference affiliation discussion, but I understand the LeSann logic. He is a scholarship player whom Coach Nelson has never seen in game conditions. Throw in the fact that it's the only chance to do it before conference play. Why not
Still working on a rotation. 20 minutes for Yeutter and Reilly against Sacred Heart to zero today. Verbeek played the stretch against UMass Boston, down to 8 minutes vs Sacred Heart and zero today. Faw picked up a second foul late in the first half (some posts above thought his last foul was cheap, I thought the first was one pretty ticky tack, but that's what a foul prone rep gets you). Verbeek stood up assuming he would be sent in to protect Niego and Faw, but was told no. On a related note Faw and Niego played together for a bit in the second half. It's been a while since we've seen that.
Lowder puzzles me like everyone else. A lot here speculate it's punishment for off the court. Maybe yes, maybe no. It's still frustrating. HC struggled today when there was any pressure at all. Having a point guard in the game might help that situation
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 29, 2019 21:27:41 GMT -5
In the first league game it will be more apparent if BN was protecting Lowder's hip until the second season begins. He was available today, Janay Faulkner was available yesterday in the women's last non-conference game. Neither played and there is no hint of anything other than injury for her, so perhaps both will play in their league openers and we'll never know exactly what went into the coaches decision for Lowder the last two games.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 29, 2019 21:31:46 GMT -5
Thanks for pointing out my error about leagues. I don't follow Fordham, but I know they lose a LOT of basketball games, including some to HC.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 29, 2019 21:39:32 GMT -5
Sadly, I don't think. I am....nobody cares....we play in a vacuum hoop-wise....should be playing schools like BC, PC, Fordham, GTown etc...we won't draw ovah a 1,000 people most nights even after this hopeless year. The PL works for HC in football....it is a disaster for hoop. I think you were being hyperbolic and forgive me for taking what you posted literally, but at 12-1 (let’s assume the loss is to Maryland), we would have beaten some solid teams ranked in the 100-200 area. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if we had picked up a few top 25 votes. Feinstein would assuredly have voted HC in his top 25. Would you be okay with the below for HC basketball?
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 29, 2019 21:56:00 GMT -5
Last 10 years
Bucky-great run program HC-terrible run program
That it all folks!
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Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2019 21:57:51 GMT -5
You know what? Not really....it's nice but at the end of the day, no one cares, no one goes to the games etc.
I'm spoiled I suppose in growing up during the 70s etc when HC hoop was still relevant in Dec, Jan and Feb...the Patriot League level of D1 hoop, as solid as it is, just doesn't hold interest to me and probably most of roughly my generation 50+ or so.
I realize there is no solution without a massive change in policy....which isn't happening.....it's just too bad, a great tradition/history is mired in mediocrity at best.
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Post by possum on Dec 29, 2019 21:59:20 GMT -5
Don't think HC87 would even be happy with that because you're still in a league that has no chance to win a championship, even an NIT championship.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 29, 2019 22:14:03 GMT -5
Would this board be insufferable if we had that decade? Bison is the expert, but I doubt there are as many Bucknell fans pining for a new league and complaining about the PL holding them back as there are HC fans doing so from the exact opposite performance pole.
My sense is most Bucknell fans appreciate having the OOC season to challenge themselves and the PL season to get to the national post season and challenge themselves again. Of course some fans always want more but I bet most Bucky fans like the PL.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 29, 2019 22:15:26 GMT -5
Sadly, I don't think. I am....nobody cares....we play in a vacuum hoop-wise....should be playing schools like BC, PC, Fordham, GTown etc...we won't draw ovah a 1,000 people most nights even after this hopeless year. The PL works for HC in football....it is a disaster for hoop. I think you were being hyperbolic and forgive me for taking what you posted literally, but at 12-1 (let’s assume the loss is to Maryland), we would have beaten some solid teams ranked in the 100-200 area. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if we had picked up a few top 25 votes. Feinstein would assuredly have voted HC in his top 25. Would you be okay with the below for HC basketball? Could you throw in a pony?😊
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Post by possum on Dec 29, 2019 22:33:36 GMT -5
I'm sure Bucknell is happy because they never had the opportunity to play at the highest level. I've made peace with the fact that we're never going to move to a power conference, the choices are to accept that or stop following the program. HC87, NHT and many many former followers of the program in and around the Worcester area are not happy with the conference affiliation and no longer support the team. Choices have consequences and we are where we are. Hopefully we can at least get back to being a factor in a smaller pond.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2019 22:36:28 GMT -5
Name one person not on this board who is excited about January games at Hart vs. the likes of American, Loyola (MD), Lafayette et. al.
They simply don't exist.
It's just not the level of basketball the casual fan, alumnus etc. cares about.
I know it's not changing anytime soon ...but I also know we won't draw crowds, get media attention etc playing hoop in this league.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Dec 29, 2019 22:38:48 GMT -5
Go to bed 87.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2019 22:39:50 GMT -5
Good Niners-Seahawks game on
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Post by Ray on Dec 29, 2019 22:45:05 GMT -5
A broken record spinning 24/7 would play the same tune less than you 87. Doesn't change the fact that my assertion is correct....Holy Cross basketball in the PL will be low mid major whether we are having success in it or not....nobody cares....people would care if we played PC, BC, Georgetown, Villanova etc It just is what it is sadly.....we are basically just another Bryant or Merrimack in hoop today.
No, it's not.
Yes, Willard era is a lone bright spot in the PL period for HC. Correlation is not causation.
You could say the same thing about the Potter/Vicens/Perry 5-6 year window as the lone bright spot in the ~30 years before the PL, too.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 29, 2019 22:46:02 GMT -5
Went to the game. Came away feeling better than I did going in. Despite the very short bench, the guys competed hard for 40 minutes against a bigger, deeper, more experienced club. Austin did a nice job at the point. Faw played much tougher than he has in the past. Wade is starting to look more comfortable on offense and could be a surprise in league play. We played a pretty decent zone but Siena made a lot of shots, especially in the first half. Love Pridgen and Hargis who were both competing for every rebound and loose ball. Will be interesting to see what we can do in league play with Lowder and Copeland both playing.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2019 23:12:51 GMT -5
Doesn't change the fact that my assertion is correct....Holy Cross basketball in the PL will be low mid major whether we are having success in it or not....nobody cares....people would care if we played PC, BC, Georgetown, Villanova etc It just is what it is sadly.....we are basically just another Bryant or Merrimack in hoop today.
No, it's not.
Yes, Willard era is a lone bright spot in the PL period for HC. Correlation is not causation.
You could say the same thing about the Potter/Vicens/Perry 5-6 year window as the lone bright spot in the ~30 years before the PL, too.
Not really....even in the ECAC North, MAAC we were playing more interesting non-league schedules, with probably bettah players in toto...the PL is a black-hole for HC hoop
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Post by Ray on Dec 29, 2019 23:24:09 GMT -5
No, it's not.
Yes, Willard era is a lone bright spot in the PL period for HC. Correlation is not causation.
You could say the same thing about the Potter/Vicens/Perry 5-6 year window as the lone bright spot in the ~30 years before the PL, too.
Not really....even in the ECAC North, MAAC we were playing more interesting non-league schedules, with probably bettah players in toto...the PL is a black-hole for HC hoop If only saying it ad infinitum made it true.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 29, 2019 23:51:10 GMT -5
Not really....even in the ECAC North, MAAC we were playing more interesting non-league schedules, with probably bettah players in toto...the PL is a black-hole for HC hoop If only saying it ad infinitum made it true. I remembah broadcasting a win ovah UConn at the Hart in 1986....it's true
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 29, 2019 23:51:20 GMT -5
Name one person not on this board who is excited about January games at Hart vs. the likes of American, Loyola (MD), Lafayette et. al. They simply don't exist. It's just not the level of basketball the casual fan, alumnus etc. cares about. I know it's not changing anytime soon ...but I also know we won't draw crowds, get media attention etc playing hoop in this league. I was excited when AU and HC both had good teams and the AU International players all looked like they were 30 years old. A PL championship in FB is exciting and also in BB. Both have automatic bids to the NCAA and a chance to do some damage there.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 30, 2019 1:57:59 GMT -5
..because they play football in that league, I guess. There's 10 basketball schools now, 12 isn't a bad number. Wonder if there's some desire for those two to stick together w/Binghamton, which doesn't have football. UNH and Maine are also in that conference for football...your argument is very weak. I don’t think America East would be interested in bringing in Holy Cross anyways since it is all large public universities. BU left over this and so did Northeastern.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 30, 2019 3:25:50 GMT -5
I'm shocked that a game thread has turned into a conference affiliation discussion thread....just shocked.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 30, 2019 5:29:12 GMT -5
Ok, I'll be a hypocrite for a moment or two (I'm feeling a bit snarky at the moment)....a few thoughts/questions:
I don't think anyone around in the 70s can deny that there was a good amount of buzz about HC hoops.....
I feel pretty certain that had HC joined the Big East, they would have more local fans today than they do now......
By default, bigger "name" teams would be coming to Worcester to play the Crusaders...
Potter and Vicens were great, but they never had to go up against Brady and Belechick…...or ESPN and the internet.....
If you hung up in Havahd Yahd for a day and asked 100 people who the coach of BC basketball was, how many would know?
If you asked the same 100 people who coached the Pats, would the answer be greater than that of the question above?
If you interviewed the entire staffs of both WEEI and The Sports Hub in Boston, how many employees do you suppose could name 3 players from any college basketball team (or football)?
The quality of play I recall in the 70's from HC was better than the quality of play from HC in the PL imo…….
Regarding competition, though - in terms of quality wins and postseason success, who has the better resume - the 5-6 year Potter/Vicens/Perry stretch of HC teams, or the best 5-6 stretch of the Bucknell teams of this century?
Reflecting on things, I'm really feeling like Twas the Night Before Christmas has run its course (bet a few think it did long ago haha)….I think someone should channel their inner Frank Capra next year and give us "It's a Wonderful Life - What if the Patriot League Was Never Born". Think about it!
Happy New Year
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 30, 2019 5:39:37 GMT -5
Though your post has nothing to do with the Siena game, Dave, that last question is perfect for its own thread and where 87 could vent to his heart’s content.
And here I had sugarplums dancing in my head until your post!😂
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 30, 2019 6:15:34 GMT -5
..because they play football in that league, I guess. There's 10 basketball schools now, 12 isn't a bad number. Wonder if there's some desire for those two to stick together w/Binghamton, which doesn't have football. When Albany and SBU joined CAA Football in 2013 or so, it was supposedly already a done deal that Albany would join for all sports but that their entry would be delayed a couple years because they were scheduled to host the A-East Tournament for 2014 and 2015 and didn't want to give that up. Stony Brook was not invited as an all-sports member at the time because Hofstra refused to vote them in. Some bad blood between the schools apparently. And now five years later still nothing on those schools joining the CAA outside of football affiliation. It's POSSIBLE that the SUNY powers that be maybe want all three schools in the same league as you mentioned.
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