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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2019 10:47:01 GMT -5
Taking this tangent even further, what percentage of kids starting in the Big East today do we think could get into Holy Cross? Even at SAT optional schools, athletes are required to submit scores. I'm guessing if that data is out there somewhere, Bison knows where it is. I don't think there is any data on this, at least any that is publicly available. However in recent years, I have talked to a few PL assistant coaches and asked them what percentage of the kids who end up as D1 players are recruitable by their school. Answer generally was about 10%. Assuming "recruitable" is strictly an academic hurdle, do you think that percentage is likely higher/lower/same when instead of all D-I players you're discussing the starters in the Big East?
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Post by trimster on Dec 30, 2019 10:56:56 GMT -5
The larger point is what % of the 10% are Big East caliber recruits and out of that %, how many could HC sign if they were in the BE.
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Post by lou on Dec 30, 2019 11:17:23 GMT -5
One of our assistants several years ago told me that many recruits don't want to do the academic work required at HC so went elsewhere
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 30, 2019 11:22:47 GMT -5
If conference affiliation was a hindrance, the Patriots would never make the Super Bowl. Instead, they take the gift that they have in three inferior franchises being forced to play them multiple times a year, and parlay that into an automatic bid into the post season tournament. They separately leverage being a well-run, well-recruited, and well-coached franchise to massive regional popularity and championship wins at the highest level. A specialty of theirs is taking cast-aways or "your guys," and beating you with them once they are "our guys."
The "inferior franchises" comment above was said somewhat facetiously with regards to many posters' remarks about Holy Cross in the PL today, versus where the college was 50 years ago. Association with Colgate is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in football over the last decade for the most part. Association with Bucknell is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated at par or maybe slightly ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in basketball over the last decade for the most part.
Get off your high horses. 50 years ago Holy Cross was a gem nationally for basketball and football and academics. 50 years ago Yugoslavia was a country and man just landed on the moon. Cell phones didn't exist. The internet didn't exist. The friggin' shot clock wasn't used in basketball. It's a different world.
If the PL is such a dump, then we should be the shiny diamond in the rough and muck. Many of the old-timers that perpetually complain about the PL remind me of the guy with no job, living in his mom's house, pimply faced and out of shape, complaining that the hot girls at the party are a bunch of losers because they don't want to give him their numbers. You're blaming too many people for your own problems (or rather, HC's specific and own problems), and are disparaging those who have been able to outpace you on some vague notion of pedigree mattering in the present date.
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Post by unhfan on Dec 30, 2019 11:32:43 GMT -5
If conference affiliation was a hindrance, the Patriots would never make the Super Bowl. Instead, they take the gift that they have in three inferior franchises being forced to play them multiple times a year, and parlay that into an automatic bid into the post season tournament. They separately leverage being a well-run, well-recruited, and well-coached franchise to massive regional popularity and championship wins at the highest level. A specialty of theirs is taking cast-aways or "your guys," and beating you with them once they are "our guys." The "inferior franchises" comment above was said somewhat facetiously with regards to many posters' remarks about Holy Cross in the PL today, versus where the college was 50 years ago. Association with Colgate is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in football over the last decade for the most part. Association with Bucknell is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated at par or maybe slightly ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in basketball over the last decade for the most part. Get off your high horses. 50 years ago Holy Cross was a gem nationally for basketball and football and academics. 50 years ago Yugoslavia was a country and man just landed on the moon. Cell phones didn't exist. The internet didn't exist. The friggin' shot clock wasn't used in basketball. It's a different world. If the PL is such a dump, then we should be the shiny diamond in the rough and muck. Many of the old-timers that perpetually complain about the PL remind me of the guy with no job, living in his mom's house, pimply faced and out of shape, complaining that the hot girls at the party are a bunch of losers because they don't want to give him their numbers. You're blaming too many people for your own problems (or rather, HC's specific and own problems), and are disparaging those who have been able to outpace you on some vague notion of pedigree mattering in the present date. From an outsiders opinion well said. But you must remember your fan base are people nearing retirement and retirees. That is great for your women’s basketball as that’s usually the major fan base but living back in the glory days aren’t getting young people interested in your product.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 30, 2019 12:02:04 GMT -5
/\ LOL (I assume he is no longer recruiting for us.) I assume not, at least not officially but the fact remains, he did recruit the Ann Arbor two and JP. Good point. What if Carm's recruiting and Nelson's coaching turns out to be a match made in heaven? HC is due a positive break.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 30, 2019 12:14:00 GMT -5
Also, we will never know how Carm's "All Miscreant" Team would have fared under Nelson's discipline from the get go. Apparently BN has good attention to detail as reported by those who have attended practices. Sometimes that can nip issues in the bud before they get out of control.
Despite losing, the team finished the OOC on a small upswing. Let's do some damage in the PL.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 30, 2019 12:54:28 GMT -5
longsuffering, not to disparage your remarks by any means; but for any or all of the "Carmody miscreants", was there evidence of bad effort, behavior, etc. on display in times and places where, to use your expression, it should have been nipped in the bud?
We all agree he and his staff most likely should have vetted some of these young men better.
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Post by hceconhist on Dec 30, 2019 12:57:34 GMT -5
And by the way, Kostecka dropped 30 against VCU. Too bad we can’t get players like that? If only we could've hired a head coach who could've gotten players like him to commit???
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Post by timholycross on Dec 30, 2019 13:00:49 GMT -5
If conference affiliation was a hindrance, the Patriots would never make the Super Bowl. Instead, they take the gift that they have in three inferior franchises being forced to play them multiple times a year, and parlay that into an automatic bid into the post season tournament. They separately leverage being a well-run, well-recruited, and well-coached franchise to massive regional popularity and championship wins at the highest level. A specialty of theirs is taking cast-aways or "your guys," and beating you with them once they are "our guys." The "inferior franchises" comment above was said somewhat facetiously with regards to many posters' remarks about Holy Cross in the PL today, versus where the college was 50 years ago. Association with Colgate is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in football over the last decade for the most part. Association with Bucknell is no good? Academically, recently, they've been rated at par or maybe slightly ahead of HC... and they kick our asses in basketball over the last decade for the most part. Get off your high horses. 50 years ago Holy Cross was a gem nationally for basketball and football and academics. 50 years ago Yugoslavia was a country and man just landed on the moon. Cell phones didn't exist. The internet didn't exist. The friggin' shot clock wasn't used in basketball. It's a different world. If the PL is such a dump, then we should be the shiny diamond in the rough and muck. Many of the old-timers that perpetually complain about the PL remind me of the guy with no job, living in his mom's house, pimply faced and out of shape, complaining that the hot girls at the party are a bunch of losers because they don't want to give him their numbers. You're blaming too many people for your own problems (or rather, HC's specific and own problems), and are disparaging those who have been able to outpace you on some vague notion of pedigree mattering in the present date. From an outsiders opinion well said. But you must remember your fan base are people nearing retirement and retirees. That is great for your women’s basketball as that’s usually the major fan base but living back in the glory days aren’t getting young people interested in your product. Point I've been trying to make...there's no bonus points for a school having a tradition when competing with the other 350 schools. Got to look at the situation at hand and work with it.
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Post by lou on Dec 30, 2019 13:03:45 GMT -5
And by the way, Kostecka dropped 30 against VCU. Too bad we can’t get players like that? If only we could've hired a head coach who could've gotten players like him to commit??? Well he's not playing for the coach who got him to commit to Loyola either, so I guess you never know
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Post by hceconhist on Dec 30, 2019 13:03:50 GMT -5
Name one person not on this board who is excited about January games at Hart vs. the likes of American, Loyola (MD), Lafayette et. al. They simply don't exist. It's just not the level of basketball the casual fan, alumnus etc. cares about. I know it's not changing anytime soon ...but I also know we won't draw crowds, get media attention etc playing hoop in this league. I did not attend HC until the fall of 2009, but several people have told me that the Hart was ROUTINELY packed during last decade. It seems to me people cared and got excited, regardless of our affiliation with the PL.
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Post by hceconhist on Dec 30, 2019 13:11:08 GMT -5
If only we could've hired a head coach who could've gotten players like him to commit??? Well he's not playing for the coach who got him to commit to Loyola either, so I guess you never know Not sure what you're trying to say. Any changes at Loyola do not change the fact that Coach Brown, who many on here say was a disaster, was able to recruit quality players.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 30, 2019 13:12:47 GMT -5
I'm old too, hate to admit it. I like the trips down memory lane (while I still have a real good one, I don't mind sayin'), but it's gotten too easy and nonproductive to wallow in the past.
Doesn't mean I agree w/everything mm67 says or pretty much anyone else for that matter, we all have a different spin on things.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Dec 30, 2019 14:10:07 GMT -5
WCHC - Hey, wait a minute. I'm an old guy and neither I nor my old guy classmates have ever said the stuff you accuse retirees of sayin'. Maybe you were referring to the younger old guys or the older young guys. Whatever. You get my message. Putting the fun stuff aside, I do agree with the substance of your post. Thanks for adding to the never ending conversation. LoveHC Definitely the older young guys... or was it the younger old guys? I can't keep up. Older than me
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2019 14:16:14 GMT -5
Name one person not on this board who is excited about January games at Hart vs. the likes of American, Loyola (MD), Lafayette et. al. They simply don't exist. It's just not the level of basketball the casual fan, alumnus etc. cares about. I know it's not changing anytime soon ...but I also know we won't draw crowds, get media attention etc playing hoop in this league. I did not attend HC until the fall of 2009, but several people have told me that the Hart was ROUTINELY packed during last decade. It seems to me people cared and got excited, regardless of our affiliation with the PL. Correct. On a Monday night in November against Ohio University: static.goholycross.com/custompages/import_content/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2007-2008/hc05.htmWeeknight games with 2,500 in attendance, which is just about as good as you can do as a mid-major these days.
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2019 14:41:03 GMT -5
Well he's not playing for the coach who got him to commit to Loyola either, so I guess you never know Not sure what you're trying to say. Any changes at Loyola do not change the fact that Coach Brown, who many on here say was a disaster, was able to recruit quality players. I don't think any here will debate that he recruited some quality players. Head of the class with Malcolm Miller, one of four players in the history of the Patriot League to play in the NBA (and first for HC since Witts class of 81). Jehyve Floyd turned out to be a very special player. Throw in 1000 point scorers Champion, Burrell, and Alexander. Not a bad top 5 for five seasons
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2019 14:47:52 GMT -5
Not sure what you're trying to say. Any changes at Loyola do not change the fact that Coach Brown, who many on here say was a disaster, was able to recruit quality players. I don't think any here will debate that he recruited some quality players. Head of the class with Malcolm Miller, one of four players in the history of the Patriot League to play in the NBA (and first for HC since Witts class of 81). Jehyve Floyd turned out to be a very special player. Throw in 1000 point scorers Champion, Burrell, and Alexander. Not a bad top 5 for five seasons Jahaad Proctor and Andrew Kostecka may have come to HC if Milan Brown wasn't terminated.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 30, 2019 14:54:43 GMT -5
Went to the game. Came away feeling better than I did going in. Despite the very short bench, the guys competed hard for 40 minutes against a bigger, deeper, more experienced club. Austin did a nice job at the point. Faw played much tougher than he has in the past. Wade is starting to look more comfortable on offense and could be a surprise in league play. We played a pretty decent zone but Siena made a lot of shots, especially in the first half. Love Pridgen and Hargis who were both competing for every rebound and loose ball. Will be interesting to see what we can do in league play with Lowder and Copeland both playing. Will 92 and Co. be allowed back at the TUC?
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2019 14:59:47 GMT -5
I don't think any here will debate that he recruited some quality players. Head of the class with Malcolm Miller, one of four players in the history of the Patriot League to play in the NBA (and first for HC since Witts class of 81). Jehyve Floyd turned out to be a very special player. Throw in 1000 point scorers Champion, Burrell, and Alexander. Not a bad top 5 for five seasons Jahaad Proctor and Andrew Kostecka may have come to HC if Milan Brown wasn't terminated. Of course no promise that Proctor would have stayed
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Post by possum on Dec 30, 2019 15:04:34 GMT -5
When Kostecka opted out I didn't think much of it as he had missed a good portion of his junior year in high school due to injury and it did not seem like a big deal to lose him. His first two years at Loyola I thought he looked like a good complimentary type player but never thought he would develop into a star. Don't know if it was the coaching change or just hard work on his part but the last two years he has become a true star. He is extremely consistent and is good in all phases of the game and as some analysts like to say his basketball smarts are off the charts. He has also had some of his best games against top competition. As things turned out this ended up a being a huge loss.
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2019 15:21:34 GMT -5
Went to the game. Came away feeling better than I did going in. Despite the very short bench, the guys competed hard for 40 minutes against a bigger, deeper, more experienced club. Austin did a nice job at the point. Faw played much tougher than he has in the past. Wade is starting to look more comfortable on offense and could be a surprise in league play. We played a pretty decent zone but Siena made a lot of shots, especially in the first half. Love Pridgen and Hargis who were both competing for every rebound and loose ball. Will be interesting to see what we can do in league play with Lowder and Copeland both playing. Will 92 and Co. be allowed back at the TUC? Ya that could have been team 92 For those that weren't at the game, supposedly the lights were dimmer than normal and the PA volume was turned down lower than normal as part of an Autism Awareness Game Seriously, although well intentioned, not really a great promotion. I'm sure all the Siena season ticket holders were on top of it. I think there was one announcement about it before the game. Team 92 might not have been seated at that point. I heard the kids cheering especially when HC got it to within 4 with about 3 minutes to go. I didn't think anything about it, and quite frankly forgot all about the promotion until I saw the post here. If you weren't seated and paying attention to the PA guy before the National Anthem, you would have no way to realize there was a special autism event happening. The had little contests during time outs similar to Hart. Maybe the volume on the guy announcing that was turned down, but no way to tell. It was a nice idea and I'm sure they had the best of intentions, but kind of hard to pull off at a sporting event. At the very least, they should print out a leaflet and hand it to every person that walks in the door. Maybe even announce it again at the second half. After the game started, there was no way any visiting fan would know about the Autism Awareness Game or how it was different than any other
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 30, 2019 15:38:36 GMT -5
Tell Sarah it could have been a LOT worse if NAD was there,😉😂
Seriously though, how could they not post it on flyers or signs. Lack of foresight.
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Post by bison137 on Dec 30, 2019 15:48:00 GMT -5
I'm surprised that they didn't publicize it more at game time. Certainly should have. There certainly was lots of pre-game publicity on their website and in local papers. RGS had posted this on the first page of this thread: "Love this move by the Saints: "Note: Sunday's contest will the second annual Sensory Friendly and Autism Awareness Game. Lights will be dimmed, flashing video advertisements will be eliminated and public address volume will be lowered to accommodate fans with autism and other special needs.""
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 30, 2019 15:50:44 GMT -5
They mentioned it more than once on the telecast but that apparently didn't "translate" to the arena.
Hopefully, they will learn from this for the next time they do this worthy activity.
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