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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 17, 2020 19:45:20 GMT -5
If Sandy DID have a scholarship (never knew he did), at some point there was a deal in place to keep him out so he didn't lose a year of eligibility. Had to be! You wouldn't play a guy with a ride AT ALL? Why would Nelson make a deal like that? For an extra practice body? I would think that it would be more likely that Nelson didn't want anything to do with Sandy for the next three years and was guiding him out the door.
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Post by alum on Mar 17, 2020 19:45:35 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but my take would be that scholarship vs walk-on status has no bearing on a player’s transferring, red shirt, sit out a year rules. I agree with this assertion. Can someone ( bison, perhaps) comment?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 17, 2020 19:46:26 GMT -5
I’m still in disbelief Sandy was a scholarship player. Brett Nelson has received more criticism on this board than Bill Carmody. Truly bananaland. Carmody gutted this program.
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Post by efg72 on Mar 17, 2020 19:49:47 GMT -5
If Sandy DID have a scholarship (never knew he did), at some point there was a deal in place to keep him out so he didn't lose a year of eligibility. Had to be! You wouldn't play a guy with a ride AT ALL? Why would Nelson make a deal like that? For an extra practice body? I would think that it would be more likely that Nelson didn't want anything to do with Sandy for the next three years and was guiding him out the door. If it were one or two players you could say guide this has been an earthquake and looks more like running off players-directly or indirectly -even walk ons
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Post by hchoops on Mar 17, 2020 19:58:23 GMT -5
Efg Without knowing the facts, it is unfair to accuse the coach of running off anyone. Unless by run off, you mean that after each player asks the coach what his future role looks like, the player decides to enter the portal
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Post by possum on Mar 17, 2020 19:59:35 GMT -5
There's a reason these guys are sitting around in May with no offers, it's unbelievable that Carmody one month before resigning went this route with yet another player. As a result Nelson was faced with the prospect of playing with an inferior roster or finding a way to move these players out and recoup the scholarships. Hopefully the short term pain will result in a competitive roster in the not to distant future Now it's on Nelson to use them effectively.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 17, 2020 20:12:44 GMT -5
After the first month of the season, did Nelson look across the basketball office to Kennedy and say: “What were you guys doing for the past 18 months?”
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Post by efg72 on Mar 17, 2020 20:14:56 GMT -5
Efg Without knowing the facts, it is unfair to accuse the coach of running off anyone. Unless by run off, you mean that after each player asks the coach what his future role looks like, the player decides to enter the portal That is why I used the words directly and indirectly i certainly have no basis to say he told them to leave, but it might be fair to suggest that some might have felt they had no meaningful role on the team this year or in the future that is between player and coach my concern is about building a winning mindset for the future which means Each player believes he is part of something bigger or the whole exceeds the sum of its parts as I have said Nelson has a bright future, but he has a lot to learn as he grows into his new role it would be a positive for him and the program if he learned how to build with the material he has and create an environment players, coaches, students, fans and the community can embrace
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 17, 2020 20:23:51 GMT -5
I’m still in disbelief Sandy was a scholarship player. Brett Nelson has received more criticism on this board than Bill Carmody. Truly bananaland. Carmody gutted this program. No he hasn’t—// not even close. On your posts alone, Bill Carmody has been the subject of more negative posts than the next three HC coaches combined
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 17, 2020 20:27:12 GMT -5
Why would Nelson make a deal like that? For an extra practice body? I would think that it would be more likely that Nelson didn't want anything to do with Sandy for the next three years and was guiding him out the door. If it were one or two players you could say guide this has been an earthquake and looks more like running off players-directly or indirectly -even walk ons Only one was a contributor (and he is also the only one who has received an ounce of interest form other D1 players at this time). If you were Nelson, and your career as a D1 Head Basketball Coach was essentially on the line over the next 2-3 years, would you want 4+ guys taking up scholarships if they are never going to help you compete? Perhaps you are more charitable than myself, but I wouldn't be willing to put my career on the line so a guy whose only other offer was from St. Mike's could stick around on the end of the bench for three more years.
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Post by efg72 on Mar 17, 2020 20:41:10 GMT -5
In life and business taking what is given to you and making it better is called management, and if truly successful and others follow you are recognized as a leader.
his day will come, but not there yet
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 17, 2020 21:10:09 GMT -5
If Sandy is on scholarship and he gets no scholarship offers from his time in the portal, he has sacrificed a great deal to leave. I suspect HC is squeamish about stripping a student athlete of their scholarship against the student's will, mainly because I haven't heard of that happening, but perhaps in this case the coach was able to unilaterally pull it.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 17, 2020 21:19:26 GMT -5
If Sandy does not receive any offers, could he remain at HC, not playing basketball, and receive funding based on financial need?
That has been the case in the past of several players that I remember during the Willard era.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 17, 2020 21:21:14 GMT -5
In life and business taking what is given to you and making it better is called management, and if truly successful and others follow you are recognized as a leader. his day will come, but not there yet I can't think of a business comparison to what Nelson is going through right now. He took over a job with a team who was not capable of performing and were hired without any other competitive teams/companies recruiting them, and he has 3-4 years to turn things around or it is highly unlikely that he will ever get a chance at that job again at any company.
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Post by efg72 on Mar 17, 2020 22:04:26 GMT -5
Those that have led change in a company after new leadership was introduced, managed integration of a small, medium or large global business, or started a new company would welcome the job Nelson has before him. Some perform and execute these roles well, some are ok, and others not so well.
If that is the comparison, his record of people and game management most likely would put him in the bottom tier. Recruiting might put him in the middle, and you could give him another year before looking at his W-L record. In business he would not get that pass. However, he is new, young and inexperienced in his role with nice upside
My guess is we are all willing to give him 4 years to deliver, but he needs to grow, learn and listen each year. You may or may not be aware but the average life expectancy of a CEO is 4.3 years, and he/she begins with significantly more experience and brings more skills. We all want Nelson to be great and raise the program to a championship level, but if he left tomorrow one would be pressed to say he left the program in a better place.
This was a difficult year for all involved, but I believe he will be successful once he and the team learn how to win together
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 17, 2020 23:09:02 GMT -5
In life and business taking what is given to you and making it better is called management, and if truly successful and others follow you are recognized as a leader. his day will come, but not there yet I can't think of a business comparison to what Nelson is going through right now. He took over a job with a team who was not capable of performing and were hired without any other competitive teams/companies recruiting them, and he has 3-4 years to turn things around or it is highly unlikely that he will ever get a chance at that job again at any company. I don't disagree with your assessment of Coach Carmody's stewardship. However, the assertions that (1) Coach Carmody left the program in a worse condition than he found it and (2) some of Coach Nelson's decisions are worthy of criticism are NOT mutually exclusive. No rational observer was going to judge Coach Nelson's performance this year by his W-L record. This year, like almost all programs with first year coaches, was about establishing a unique culture (this is where Coach Kearney especially failed). Part of building a culture involves making everyone believe they have a role and that the program will be greater than the sum of its parts. Maybe he established that culture; maybe he did not; time will tell.
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Post by HCFC45 on Mar 18, 2020 7:08:34 GMT -5
Here's a clearer picture of what the team looks like now compared to last November. Note: 6 went into the transfer portal, CLS will graduate and KC is on indefinite personal leave. Double click on photo to enlarge... Attachment Deleted
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Post by joe on Mar 18, 2020 7:36:34 GMT -5
Here’s the reality, as I view it. Team was very good (20 wins) but not great under Milan Brown who was an excellent recruiter but had bad luck in the PL tourney. Bill Carmody, on the strength of Brown’s recruiting, pulled a one-off miracle in the PLC tourney but otherwise took the team from very good to very poor. Under Brett Nelson, the program has simply been decimated to the point at which consideration should be given to boarding up the gym and re-tooling for a few years. I have seen, heard, or gleaned nothing positive to make me think Brett Nelson is any more equipped than the two previous coaches to elevate the program from arguably now the worst program in D1 to some PL juggernaut that many here expect. If Nelson, with no experience as a head coach or any experience at an “academic” program, has some sort of secret plan for success that no one can pick up on, so be it. However, in my opinion, one would have expected to see some hint of strategic genius or glint of something special at some point during the season. He’s given mostly a generic product on the floor and mostly just generic locker room jock school coach talk in the press. He’s recruiting a few decent players, but so does every team in D1. The fact that half the team has left is about as telling as it gets. No way players are being asked to leave. No inexperienced coach in his or her right mind would come into this mess that hot. You’d have to be crazy. If that’s the case, he should be fired for cause on that basis alone. You do not create a culture by running people off. The Coach Carter “front-row-in-class” BS is the polar opposite of what students at HC need and deserve. Not clearing the bench during blowouts its a crock if, for no other reasons, than those related to poor optics.
Time will tell. I’ve been wrong before.
In the end, we all believe whatever we need to believe to sleep at night.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 18, 2020 7:46:24 GMT -5
Yup. In the end all belief is voluntary. We believe what we choose to believe. Facts play a small role, but not much because it is how we interpret those facts that matters. It did appear that Coach Nelson had his core players (with one major exception) buy into his coaching philosophy last season. Next year will show if that is, in fact, the case.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 18, 2020 8:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 18, 2020 8:05:29 GMT -5
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 8:08:48 GMT -5
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 8:37:48 GMT -5
Efg Without knowing the facts, it is unfair to accuse the coach of running off anyone. Unless by run off, you mean that after each player asks the coach what his future role looks like, the player decides to enter the portal HC is hardly unique with regard to the transfer epidemic. Syracuse had three guards leave in the last few days and I read where Northeastern has had 6 players leave in 12 months. It's only going to get worse when the new transfer rules take effect. The seeds of this probably started with the every kid gets a trophy movement years ago.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 18, 2020 8:53:29 GMT -5
Most D1 players were not affected by the trophy idea It starts when they are recruited for H.S. and AAU teams, then leave those teams after they are recruited by other competitors
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Post by hchoops on Mar 18, 2020 8:54:47 GMT -5
Lowder played on 4 AAU teams
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