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Post by efg72 on Mar 18, 2020 9:24:26 GMT -5
If I was coaching and experienced the nine months of basketball that just took place, I would be on the phone with every mentor I had, including coaches, teachers, psychologists, and former teammates. I would listen to approaches to the game, how to manage a roster, find out more about myself and with some luck realize what I have to do differently for HC basketball to be a winner.
For me to succeed my players need to understand who I am and what I want for all of us. It is not about me being a head coach, but how together can we create an environment at HC that every player respects and future players want to experience. Using the Gayle Sayers phrase “I am Third” they would know they are committed to their faith, family, and team in that order.
Given our social distancing and my July start, I would take this time to do a do-over -rarely possible but with current events it is an opportunity
I would then spend every day talking to my players and recruits, former HC coaches, HC basketball players/managers, Tom Gilmore and Bob Chesney and carefully listen to each of them for they know HC and most still love the school today.
By the middle of April I will have gathered and absorbed great information to build a new approach. I would go back to my seniors and discuss our new approach, discuss what I need from each of them, and then listen again.
This will help me be team focused, engaged with my players, a better story teller/great recruiter, a better coach, and a strong representative of the Holy Cross community.
But then again nobody would ever hire me to be a coach
Back to addressing public health needs and getting commitments from Casinos and Colleges for dorm space to get hospital bed space in Washington state, N Cal, NYC , Boston and Philly
Everybody stay safe, #let’sflattenthecurvetogether
Find ways to laugh and smile and avoid stress
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 9:34:33 GMT -5
Most D1 players were not affected by the trophy idea It starts when they are recruited for H.S. and AAU teams, then leave those teams after they are recruited by other competitors Very good point.
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 9:43:40 GMT -5
If I was coaching and experienced the nine months of basketball that just took place, I would be on the phone with every mentor I had, including coaches, teachers, psychologists, and former teammates. I would listen to approaches to the game, how to manage a roster, find out more about myself and with some luck realize what I have to do differently for HC basketball to be a winner. For me to succeed my players need to understand who I am and what I want for all of us. It is not about me being a head coach, but how together can we create an environment at HC that every player respects and future players want to experience. Using the Gayle Sayers phrase “I am Third” they would know they are committed to their faith, family, and team in that order. Given our social distancing and my July start, I would take this time to do a do-over -rarely possible but with current events it is an opportunity I would then spend every day talking to my players and recruits, former HC coaches, HC basketball players/managers, Tom Gilmore and Bob Chesney and carefully listen to each of them for they know HC and most still love the school today. By the middle of April I will have gathered and absorbed great information to build a new approach. I would go back to my seniors and discuss our new approach, discuss what I need from each of them, and then listen again. This will help me be team focused, engaged with my players, a better story teller/great recruiter, a better coach, and a strong representative of the Holy Cross community. But then again nobody would ever hire me to be a coach Back to addressing public health needs and getting commitments from Casinos and Colleges for dorm space to get hospital bed space in Washington state, N Cal, NYC , Boston and Philly Everybody stay safe, #let’sflattenthecurvetogether Find ways to laugh and smile and avoid stress It’s highly possible many of the things you suggest have already taken place. Good luck with your efforts. I was in a high school fieldhouse last fall that could house a lot of patients. Exhibition halls attached to arenas could house many people. Sorry if I am stating the obvious. Be well.
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Post by ericobeyyourthirst on Mar 18, 2020 9:49:38 GMT -5
If I was coaching and experienced the nine months of basketball that just took place, I would be on the phone with every mentor I had, including coaches, teachers, psychologists, and former teammates. I would listen to approaches to the game, how to manage a roster, find out more about myself and with some luck realize what I have to do differently for HC basketball to be a winner. For me to succeed my players need to understand who I am and what I want for all of us. It is not about me being a head coach, but how together can we create an environment at HC that every player respects and future players want to experience. Using the Gayle Sayers phrase “I am Third” they would know they are committed to their faith, family, and team in that order. Given our social distancing and my July start, I would take this time to do a do-over -rarely possible but with current events it is an opportunity I would then spend every day talking to my players and recruits, former HC coaches, HC basketball players/managers, Tom Gilmore and Bob Chesney and carefully listen to each of them for they know HC and most still love the school today. By the middle of April I will have gathered and absorbed great information to build a new approach. I would go back to my seniors and discuss our new approach, discuss what I need from each of them, and then listen again. This will help me be team focused, engaged with my players, a better story teller/great recruiter, a better coach, and a strong representative of the Holy Cross community. But then again nobody would ever hire me to be a coach Back to addressing public health needs and getting commitments from Casinos and Colleges for dorm space to get hospital bed space in Washington state, N Cal, NYC , Boston and Philly Everybody stay safe, #let’sflattenthecurvetogether Find ways to laugh and smile and avoid stress Maybe Nelson has a sound approach that requires a certain caliber of athlete. Based on the remarks from the recruits, they are encouraged by his vision for the program.
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Post by sader81 on Mar 18, 2020 10:10:48 GMT -5
Why is everybody surprised? The team experienced the worst year in history. One thing that brings a team together is winning. That didn't happen, and kids are heading for the exits. We brought a coach in who has a great power 5 resume as an assistant, but no experience dealing with the kind of kids that are admitted to HC. He took over a team geared for pass first offense and zone defense, and played run and shoot offense and man defense. This sounds a lot like the same scenario with the Brown hire, absent the power 5. I do question whether Nelson's playing philosophy will work at HC, but I'm willing to give him a few years to try. Despite all the bad press here, Faw, Niego and Butler will be seniors with a lot of playing experience, which matters in the PL. The incoming frosh look promising. With any luck, they can be ok next year, probably not contenders, but not in the basement.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 18, 2020 10:13:39 GMT -5
As to sounding similar, you may remember that Milan Brown had a track record as a head coach...one we kept hearing about for several years after he started at HC.
I think your last point is what many of us are hoping. Next season we will once we again have strong senior leadership (of more than one person, and thanks to CLS for all he did in the season we just survived).
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Post by rickii on Mar 18, 2020 10:22:50 GMT -5
If I was coaching and experienced the nine months of basketball that just took place, I would be on the phone with every mentor I had, including coaches, teachers, psychologists, and former teammates. I would listen to approaches to the game, how to manage a roster, find out more about myself and with some luck realize what I have to do differently for HC basketball to be a winner. For me to succeed my players need to understand who I am and what I want for all of us. It is not about me being a head coach, but how together can we create an environment at HC that every player respects and future players want to experience. Using the Gayle Sayers phrase “I am Third” they would know they are committed to their faith, family, and team in that order. Given our social distancing and my July start, I would take this time to do a do-over -rarely possible but with current events it is an opportunity I would then spend every day talking to my players and recruits, former HC coaches, HC basketball players/managers, Tom Gilmore and Bob Chesney and carefully listen to each of them for they know HC and most still love the school today. By the middle of April I will have gathered and absorbed great information to build a new approach. I would go back to my seniors and discuss our new approach, discuss what I need from each of them, and then listen again. This will help me be team focused, engaged with my players, a better story teller/great recruiter, a better coach, and a strong representative of the Holy Cross community. But then again nobody would ever hire me to be a coach Back to addressing public health needs and getting commitments from Casinos and Colleges for dorm space to get hospital bed space in Washington state, N Cal, NYC , Boston and Philly Everybody stay safe, #let’sflattenthecurvetogether Find ways to laugh and smile and avoid stress Maybe Nelson has a sound approach that requires a certain caliber of athlete. Based on the remarks from the recruits, they are encouraged by his vision for the program.What could possibly be a 'vision' other than the obvious....recruit, compete and win ball games.
Kids do or don't relate to a coach's personality and enthusiasm....see Chesney. That's what sets coaches apart from others.
As to your first paragraph....if I ever got wind that Nelson was doing all that my reaction would be " Boy, did we make a colossal mistake in hiring this guy"
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Post by HC92 on Mar 18, 2020 10:57:12 GMT -5
Confirms that Nelson was doing Sandy a solid by not playing him in garbage time and saving him a year of eligibility.
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 11:25:35 GMT -5
Why is everybody surprised? The team experienced the worst year in history. One thing that brings a team together is winning. That didn't happen, and kids are heading for the exits. We brought a coach in who has a great power 5 resume as an assistant, but no experience dealing with the kind of kids that are admitted to HC. He took over a team geared for pass first offense and zone defense, and played run and shoot offense and man defense. This sounds a lot like the same scenario with the Brown hire, absent the power 5. I do question whether Nelson's playing philosophy will work at HC, but I'm willing to give him a few years to try. Despite all the bad press here, Faw, Niego and Butler will be seniors with a lot of playing experience, which matters in the PL. The incoming frosh look promising. With any luck, they can be ok next year, probably not contenders, but not in the basement. Well said. I suspect by now, Coach Nelson has a good handle on the type of student-athlete he and his staff can recruit to HC. Obviously he is dealing with a much smaller number of recruits than he could look at in his prior positions. I have the same doubts about his playing philosophy vis a vis success at HC but like you, am willing to give him several years to implement it. If I were to suggest one person he should talk with about succeeding at HC, it would be Ralph Willard.
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 18, 2020 11:38:13 GMT -5
Why is everybody surprised? The team experienced the worst year in history. One thing that brings a team together is winning. That didn't happen, and kids are heading for the exits. We brought a coach in who has a great power 5 resume as an assistant, but no experience dealing with the kind of kids that are admitted to HC. He took over a team geared for pass first offense and zone defense, and played run and shoot offense and man defense. This sounds a lot like the same scenario with the Brown hire, absent the power 5. I do question whether Nelson's playing philosophy will work at HC, but I'm willing to give him a few years to try. Despite all the bad press here, Faw, Niego and Butler will be seniors with a lot of playing experience, which matters in the PL. The incoming frosh look promising. With any luck, they can be ok next year, probably not contenders, but not in the basement. Well said. I suspect by now, Coach Nelson has a good handle on the type of student-athlete he and his staff can recruit to HC. Obviously he is dealing with a much smaller number of recruits than he could look at in his prior positions. I have the same doubts about his playing philosophy vis a vis success at HC but like you, am willing to give him several years to implement it. If I were to suggest one person he should talk with about succeeding at HC, it would be Ralph Willard. Make it three people: RW, George Blaney, and Togo
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Post by ericobeyyourthirst on Mar 18, 2020 11:50:56 GMT -5
Confirms that Nelson was doing Sandy a solid by not playing him in garbage time and saving him a year of eligibility. Completely Agree - based on the team being decimated, if he had the potential to help at any capacity I'm sure Nelson would have given him a shot.
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2020 11:55:34 GMT -5
Well said. I suspect by now, Coach Nelson has a good handle on the type of student-athlete he and his staff can recruit to HC. Obviously he is dealing with a much smaller number of recruits than he could look at in his prior positions. I have the same doubts about his playing philosophy vis a vis success at HC but like you, am willing to give him several years to implement it. If I were to suggest one person he should talk with about succeeding at HC, it would be Ralph Willard. Make it three people: RW, George Blaney, and Togo All fine people to talk to, but Willard would be the most relevant to today's game. Between HC, Seton Hall, and UConn, Blaney never actually coached at the low/mid major level. Togo would be the most entertaining conversation of the crew. That guy is a great story teller
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 11:58:05 GMT -5
Well said. I suspect by now, Coach Nelson has a good handle on the type of student-athlete he and his staff can recruit to HC. Obviously he is dealing with a much smaller number of recruits than he could look at in his prior positions. I have the same doubts about his playing philosophy vis a vis success at HC but like you, am willing to give him several years to implement it. If I were to suggest one person he should talk with about succeeding at HC, it would be Ralph Willard. Make it three people: RW, George Blaney, and Togo I picked Ralph since he is the most current coach with real success. Obviously he probably has talked with Bob Chesney and other coaches at HC at length. He would be very foolish not to have done so.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 18, 2020 12:55:52 GMT -5
Make it three people: RW, George Blaney, and Togo All fine people to talk to, but Willard would be the most relevant to today's game. Between HC, Seton Hall, and UConn, Blaney never actually coached at the low/mid major level. Togo would be the most entertaining conversation of the crew. That guy is a great story teller I'd have to disagree with the comment about George- what about 1980-1994? HC independent (and it's traditional strong independent opponents moving on to the Big East and one-by-one not playing us)/America East (predecessor thereof)/MAAC/Patriot League. No high major in any of that time. Then again, it was clear when he left and even 10 or so years ago George hated the Patriot League.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 18, 2020 13:36:53 GMT -5
And George had the even greater burden of recruiting for a low/mid major with academic restrictions and no scholarships for a while if I have my timelines correct. My friend who worked as an Assistant Director of Food Service at Kimball and dealt with Blaney and Duffner said the difference was night and day. Duffner had the enthusiasm of a kid on Christmas morning and George was understandably a bit burned out. He was expected to live up to HC's basketball heritage with one hand tied behind his back.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 18, 2020 13:41:49 GMT -5
I can't think of a business comparison to what Nelson is going through right now. He took over a job with a team who was not capable of performing and were hired without any other competitive teams/companies recruiting them, and he has 3-4 years to turn things around or it is highly unlikely that he will ever get a chance at that job again at any company. I don't disagree with your assessment of Coach Carmody's stewardship. However, the assertions that (1) Coach Carmody left the program in a worse condition than he found it and (2) some of Coach Nelson's decisions are worthy of criticism are NOT mutually exclusive. No rational observer was going to judge Coach Nelson's performance this year by his W-L record. This year, like almost all programs with first year coaches, was about establishing a unique culture (this is where Coach Kearney especially failed). Part of building a culture involves making everyone believe they have a role and that the program will be greater than the sum of its parts. Maybe he established that culture; maybe he did not; time will tell. Agree with all of these points. However, the point about making everyone believe they have a role is extremely idealistic for the team that Nelson inherited. John Wooden couldn't have fixed the broken parts in this program (in personnel, culture, fundamentals, etc. etc. etc.). A full restart is what we've needed for years, and it's finally happening.
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2020 14:59:33 GMT -5
And George had the even greater burden of recruiting for a low/mid major with academic restrictions and no scholarships for a while if I have my timelines correct. My friend who worked as an Assistant Director of Food Service at Kimball and dealt with Blaney and Duffner said the difference was night and day. Duffner had the enthusiasm of a kid on Christmas morning and George was understandably a bit burned out. He was expected to live up to HC's basketball heritage with one hand tied behind his back. I'm going to say that Coach Blaney graduated one class (John Young) without scholarships
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2020 15:03:27 GMT -5
And George had the even greater burden of recruiting for a low/mid major with academic restrictions and no scholarships for a while if I have my timelines correct. My friend who worked as an Assistant Director of Food Service at Kimball and dealt with Blaney and Duffner said the difference was night and day. Duffner had the enthusiasm of a kid on Christmas morning and George was understandably a bit burned out. He was expected to live up to HC's basketball heritage with one hand tied behind his back. I'm going to say that Coach Blaney graduated one class (John Young) without scholarships George’s next to last graduating class was the last scholarship class and was very strong. The group led the team to the PL championship.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 18, 2020 15:05:10 GMT -5
And George had the even greater burden of recruiting for a low/mid major with academic restrictions and no scholarships for a while if I have my timelines correct. My friend who worked as an Assistant Director of Food Service at Kimball and dealt with Blaney and Duffner said the difference was night and day. Duffner had the enthusiasm of a kid on Christmas morning and George was understandably a bit burned out. He was expected to live up to HC's basketball heritage with one hand tied behind his back. I'm going to say that Coach Blaney graduated one class (John Young) without scholarships Correct, I think. But in no way was Holy Cross a major basketball program in the 80s. The MAAC in those days was better than both the current MAAC and the Patriot League, but still middle-of-the-road.
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 18, 2020 19:51:20 GMT -5
I'm going to say that Coach Blaney graduated one class (John Young) without scholarships Correct, I think. But in no way was Holy Cross a major basketball program in the 80s. The MAAC in those days was better than both the current MAAC and the Patriot League, but still middle-of-the-road. And what about in the ‘74 to ‘80+/- timeframe when SI had us ranked #9 preseason, when we actually rose to #9 in the AP Top-20 (not 25) poll, when we beat the 6th-ranked Cincinnati Bearcats (with future pro Pat Cummings), when we posted wins against BC, PC, Georgetown, Seton Hall, UConn, and a ranked Kansas State team needed OT to beat us in the Vanderbilt tournament, when we took top-ranked (and presumed #1 seed) Michigan to the last few minutes of a first-round NCAA game, when at least four HC players (Potter, Vicens, Perry, Witts) we’re drafted by NBA teams.......... Shall I go on? George Blaney was at the helm of those teams, and Togo was heavily involved with the “bigs”. Wouldn’t we want to get the program even halfway back to those levels??
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Post by timholycross on Mar 18, 2020 22:00:52 GMT -5
My response was to this statement "Between HC, Seton Hall, and UConn, Blaney never actually coached at the low/mid major level.".
What Holy Cross' basketball program was in the 80s (I'll bump it up one year and say, 1982, after Garry Witts graduated, there were a couple of nice wins that year) was in no way, shape or form what Ignutz is describing above.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 19, 2020 6:12:48 GMT -5
/\ I think Blaney’s recruiting took a nosedive after ‘79. IMHO Chris Logan (arrived ‘79ish) was his last high quality recruit.
After the graduation of Witts/Logan (I think they were a year or two apart) we were definitely out of the national picture. Never to return.
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Post by purplepig on Mar 19, 2020 6:31:03 GMT -5
The Milan Brown Era, now remembered as “The Salad Days.” Nelson has a huge job ahead of him. This year was worse than expected but it was going to be awful anyway. Next year will not be much better. I don’t know if he’s the answer but he stepped into a pile of, something. Nobody could turn this around overnight.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 19, 2020 6:58:47 GMT -5
/\ I think Blaney’s recruiting took a nosedive after ‘79. IMHO Chris Logan (arrived ‘79ish) was his last high quality recruit. After the graduation of Witts/Logan (I think they were a year or two apart) we were definitely out of the national picture. Never to return. Kevin Greaney
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Post by trimster on Mar 19, 2020 7:06:20 GMT -5
/\ I think Blaney’s recruiting took a nosedive after ‘79. IMHO Chris Logan (arrived ‘79ish) was his last high quality recruit. After the graduation of Witts/Logan (I think they were a year or two apart) we were definitely out of the national picture. Never to return. Kevin Greaney Some outstanding transfer guards came in around 1980: Godbolt, Thurman and Runcie. The last two were Parade AAs as was Greaney.
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