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Post by hcpride on Mar 19, 2020 7:12:07 GMT -5
/\ I think Blaney’s recruiting took a nosedive after ‘79. IMHO Chris Logan (arrived ‘79ish) was his last high quality recruit. After the graduation of Witts/Logan (I think they were a year or two apart) we were definitely out of the national picture. Never to return. Kevin Greaney Prior to Logan.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 19, 2020 7:14:27 GMT -5
Some outstanding transfer guards came in around 1980: Godbolt, Thurman and Runcie. The last two were Parade AAs as was Greaney. Yes. I think of the transfers (add McCaffrey '86) as evidence of Blaney's recruiting nosedive. Saw all of those guys play - mixed reviews IMHO. Greaney was prior to Logan.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 19, 2020 8:13:58 GMT -5
I think GB recruited fairly well, especially where we were at the time (MAAC/PL)...guys like Pernell, Feaster etc. but we were definitely recruiting for a different level after the early 1980s or so as others have stated above.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 19, 2020 8:34:28 GMT -5
It's other stuff that added up as well. Scheduling our better opponents became a problem, some disappeared, never to return. Coverage and interest dropped, and not always tied to winning.
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Post by Tom on Mar 19, 2020 9:32:58 GMT -5
Since, I'm about that age, as I recall of the names mentioned:
Witts '81 Greaney '82 Logan '83 Runcie '85 McCaffery '86
Godbolt was there when I was there. I think Thurman was a little older than me
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hc82
Freshman
Posts: 12
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Post by hc82 on Mar 19, 2020 9:40:31 GMT -5
Witts was 81, Greaney 82.
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Post by alum on Mar 19, 2020 9:49:33 GMT -5
Eddie Thurman was a Parade All American who transferred in from Wake Forest. He was HC 82 after sitting out a year.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 19, 2020 10:54:44 GMT -5
Correct, I think. But in no way was Holy Cross a major basketball program in the 80s. The MAAC in those days was better than both the current MAAC and the Patriot League, but still middle-of-the-road. And what about in the ‘74 to ‘80+/- timeframe when SI had us ranked #9 preseason, when we actually rose to #9 in the AP Top-20 (not 25) poll, when we beat the 6th-ranked Cincinnati Bearcats (with future pro Pat Cummings), when we posted wins against BC, PC, Georgetown, Seton Hall, UConn, and a ranked Kansas State team needed OT to beat us in the Vanderbilt tournament, when we took top-ranked (and presumed #1 seed) Michigan to the last few minutes of a first-round NCAA game, when at least four HC players (Potter, Vicens, Perry, Witts) we’re drafted by NBA teams.......... Shall I go on? George Blaney was at the helm of those teams, and Togo was heavily involved with the “bigs”. Wouldn’t we want to get the program even halfway back to those levels?? Now I know I've mentioned this about a thousand times now, but when you compare Bucknell's 04-05/05-06 resume against HC's above, it doesn't really take a backseat imho. Now, they didn't play as many high caliber teams as HC did, but - they did have a win on the road against a top 10 team (Pitt), a win at Syracuse, 2 NCAA wins over legit programs, and some other quality wins as well. Now, it can never be like the 70s again, but it IS possible to elevate the program to a more than respectable status - just need the right combination of coach/players/support.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 19, 2020 11:08:32 GMT -5
Eddie Thurman was a Parade All American who transferred in from Wake Forest. He was HC 82 after sitting out a year. Yes. We had a few good transfers come in during that time. FWIW I was referencing high school recruiting and George Blaney and our downturn. I am still thinking Chris Logan '83 was his last big national high school recruit. (Others have pointed out Witts and Greaney were recruited out of high school before Logan and that we had some transfers with nice HS resumes [+McCaffrey] come in.) I'm thinking that our high school recruiting diminished greatly starting around '80, a few of the top guys were still at HC, and the graduation of those top guys in the very early 80's marked the very end of our national basketball relevance. As far as why we couldn't land that level kid out of high school one can't help but notice another league did start around 1980. (Not sure subsequent PL membership helped either.) HC 87's point that GB could still land talented kids ( v our lower level of competition) is well taken.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 19, 2020 11:50:44 GMT -5
I will say the program, although it certainly would have had a ceiling, being in the MAAC; was clearly on the uptick when Brooks pulled the plug on scholarships. Even then, they got Rob Feaster somehow.
Pernell, Nairus, Mashburn, Powell, just to name a few; were pretty good ballplayers. Games were fun to go to and attendance picked up too.
Remember, the Patriot League was purely football for a good 3 years before it became a multi-sports conference. Never knew they were headed in that direction, although in retrospect, I should have known.
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 19, 2020 12:22:43 GMT -5
This sort of distinction is one I'd rather not have:
Total outgoing transfers in 2020, per @verbalcommits data: 6 — Cal Baptist, Holy Cross, Incarnate Word, Oakland, Presbyterian, Wichita State 5 — Idaho State, Mount St. Mary's, Toledo 4 — 10 teams
= but I believe our '6' includes 'Lovisolo' who is at Union now and played in 19 games for them this season.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 19, 2020 12:45:01 GMT -5
If we can keep Pridgen, all of the transfers out will be a net positive for the program going forward despite the short term reputational harm. Lowder is obviously a big loss on the court but that’s it so far. Losing Pridgen would be a big blow (master of the obvious, I know).
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Post by sarasota on Mar 19, 2020 12:57:20 GMT -5
Lovisolo came off the bench. Averaged 12 mins and 4.5 pts. Shooting %'s in the 30's. But FT's over 80%. Played along side Union's high scorer, at Don Bosco in Jersey. Father played bball at Union. Carmody was Hall of Famer at Union and also lives in Jersey.
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Post by trimster on Mar 19, 2020 13:08:09 GMT -5
I will say the program, although it certainly would have had a ceiling, being in the MAAC; was clearly on the uptick when Brooks pulled the plug on scholarships. Even then, they got Rob Feaster somehow. Pernell, Nairus, Mashburn, Powell, just to name a few; were pretty good ballplayers. Games were fun to go to and attendance picked up too. Remember, the Patriot League was purely football for a good 3 years before it became a multi-sports conference. Never knew they were headed in that direction, although in retrospect, I should have known. Don't forget players like Breslin, Walker and Weedon. Recruiting went South in a big way as the 80's progressed but then George and his staff adjusted their recruiting post Big East. Obviously the end of scholarships was a real program killer.
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Post by possum on Mar 19, 2020 13:21:20 GMT -5
The open scholarships are a best case scenario, Nelson gets a chance to bring in his guys much sooner than expected, now it's on him to use them effectively. We should know sooner than anticipated whether he's the right guy.
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Post by sarasota on Mar 19, 2020 13:22:26 GMT -5
This is the kind of thing that can happen in a strongly top down organization, i.e., President (Brooks) makes important decision unilaterally, not so collegially. A President in a black robe, an ordained priest, member of an Order with a strong worldwide brand, and an Administration and Faculty of lay persons. The image suggests the gulf between The Top and everyone else.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 19, 2020 23:30:37 GMT -5
I recall Father Brooks wearing black pants instead of a black robe. I would imagine that while many disagreed with him, it would not be a unilateral decision in the sense that faculty generally favor de-emphasis of big time athletics so he probably wasn't shoving anything down their throat. In promoting academics over entertainment, he was the faculty's champion. No?
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