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Post by mm67 on Apr 9, 2021 9:21:47 GMT -5
Home plate Umpire Ron Kelpa admitted he was wrong Yup. Good coda to the story. In the future one would expect a rule change, namely, a hit batter's movement into a pitch would be subject to review. Did Conforto cheat? Or, was it gamesmanship.
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MLB 2021
Apr 9, 2021 9:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by lou on Apr 9, 2021 9:27:35 GMT -5
I saw it briefly on the 6pm news. Didn't look like he moved or that it hit him, or even touched the sleeve. In the post game, he said the coach made him go to first base, to win the game, but sounded like he was doubtful
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Post by hchoops on Apr 9, 2021 9:45:54 GMT -5
Multiple replays showed it clearly hit him, but since his elbow was in the strike zone, as was the ball, he should have been struck out. That is why the ump admitted he was wrong.
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Post by Tom on Apr 9, 2021 10:16:28 GMT -5
I have no recollection of a HPB not being called because a batter moved into the ball. A rule that is rarely enforced.
Let's hope that this bad call doesn't affect a team making/not making the post season
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Post by mm67 on Apr 9, 2021 10:29:48 GMT -5
Hernandez & Darling complained that clearly it was a strike but the Ump's call was not reviewable. No doubt Conforto should have been out. Personally, I think his arm movement over the plate was gamesmanship. Hopefully, Marlins pitchers will not give him a "light"tap.( see Don Drysdale) No doubt the Umps will be looking for it. It was the Ump's error, a bad call. Logically, one would think there would be no reason to hit Conforto with a pitch. However, sometimes pitchers want to send a message, logic be damned. Maybe, a brush back pitch will be thrown in the style of Sal "the Barber" Maglie.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 9, 2021 10:35:15 GMT -5
Multiple replays showed it clearly hit him, but since his elbow was in the strike zone, as was the ball, he should have been struck out. That is why the ump admitted he was wrong. Of course. The umpire erroneously changed the called strike. It should have been a strike. Period. He did apologize for his missed call... However Balls & strikes are not reviewable nor in my view should they be. As was noted arm movement into a pitched ball is rarely called and is not reviewable and maybe should be subject to review. The reactions by the announcers(including Kay & co. on the YES Network) were great entertainment. Mets win. Slept well.
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Post by Tom on Apr 9, 2021 10:58:10 GMT -5
Hernandez & Darling complained that clearly it was a strike but the Ump's call was not reviewable. No doubt Conforto should have been out. Personally, I think his arm movement over the plate was gamesmanship. Hopefully, Marlins pitchers will not give him a "light"tap.( see Don Drysdale) No doubt the Umps will be looking for it. It was the Ump's error, a bad call. Logically, one would think there would be no reason to hit Conforto with a pitch. However, sometimes pitchers want to send a message, logic be damned. Maybe, a brush back pitch will be thrown in the style of Sal "the Barber" Maglie. I think the standard penalty for gamesmanship is a HBP Yes, the ump blew the call, but it sounds like Conforto was leaning into the pitch. Would not be at all surprised if he gets a "light tap"
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Post by alum on Apr 9, 2021 11:45:57 GMT -5
Here's the rule:
The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided said runner advances to and touches first base) when –
(a) four “balls” have been called by the umpire; ball is live and base runners may advance;
(b) the batter is touched by a pitched ball which the batter is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball;
NOTE: If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if that batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched. A.R.— When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle that batter to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance.
It is hard for me to understand how a guy who does this for a living gets this wrong. The Note makes the rule clear that getting out of the way doesn't matter if the ball is a strike and the ump was half way through his punch out motion when he changed and called it a HBP.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 9, 2021 12:03:18 GMT -5
To make it worse, after conferring with the other umps, he still got it wrong. None of them knew the rule.
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MLB 2021
Apr 9, 2021 12:45:01 GMT -5
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Post by lou on Apr 9, 2021 12:45:01 GMT -5
I'm not an ump, but was coached by Hop. Never knew about b1, always thought the rule was b2
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Post by Tom on Apr 9, 2021 13:08:44 GMT -5
To make it worse, after conferring with the other umps, he still got it wrong. None of them knew the rule. I would sincerely hope they all knew the rule. I didn't see the play, but I'm not sure what you gain by conferring with the other umps. Only the guy behind the plate knows if the ball was in the strike zone or not. There is zero chance you're talking it over to see if someone had a better view. The only thing the conference could accomplish is to tell the umpire the rule. A lot less shame saying you missed the call and the replay shows it was a strike than to say you didn't know the rule. I would think not knowing the rule book could get an ump sent down to the minors
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 9, 2021 17:03:06 GMT -5
To make it worse, after conferring with the other umps, he still got it wrong. None of them knew the rule. I would sincerely hope they all knew the rule. I didn't see the play, but I'm not sure what you gain by conferring with the other umps. Only the guy behind the plate knows if the ball was in the strike zone or not. There is zero chance you're talking it over to see if someone had a better view. The only thing the conference could accomplish is to tell the umpire the rule. A lot less shame saying you missed the call and the replay shows it was a strike than to say you didn't know the rule. I would think not knowing the rule book could get an ump sent down to the minors Since he started ringing the guy up, he knew it was a strike
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Post by mm67 on Apr 9, 2021 18:49:57 GMT -5
Hernandez & Darling believed the conference was held to verify that Conforto was hit by the pitch. They explained the second base ump would have a better view of the pitch.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 10, 2021 15:37:07 GMT -5
I guess if you swing at a pitch and get hit (because the pitch fooled you) that falls under one of those two scenarios. I'm sure I've seen that more than once.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 23, 2021 22:16:26 GMT -5
For those who do.not follow the Mets closely, Jacob deGrom is having a phenomenal season. Tonight he pitched a 2 hit shutout striking out 15, getting the last 19 hitters in a row. He has struck out 14, 14, and 15 in his last three games, 50 in four starts, allowing 1 earned run, ERA—.031. He is having a four year stretch that ranks with the best ever. He also had 2 hits, 1 rbi, scored 2 runs. He is batting over .500. We do not need the DH.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 24, 2021 0:17:38 GMT -5
I hate the designated hitter rule--it robs us of seeing those pitchers who can hit such as DeGrom
A guy I worked with met Warren Spahn at some event . Rather than ask Spahn about his 363 wins the guy asked :"How many home runs did you hit--didn't you hold the record for home runs by a pitcher?" Spahn promptly hugged him. Spahn's home runs in 17 consecutive seasons is surely a record for pitchers that will never be equaled. He had 35 total.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 24, 2021 7:02:42 GMT -5
There's one rule proposal (I assume for both leagues) that would make the DH go away when the starting pitcher gets pulled.
Pluses- would provide more motivation to leave a starter in a bit longer AND (more importantly, IMHO), would render the "opener" a thing of the past (a team would lose its DH after at most one plate appearance, maybe none). Would make having pinch hitters on the roster a necessity. Would keep some of the managerial strategies (double switch, etc.) in the game (doesn't happen in an AL game).
Minuses- good hitting starters wouldn't bat. Relievers might, and I bet you most of them, even the NL ones; haven't picked up a bat since they were in high school.
Your thoughts?
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Post by Tom on Apr 24, 2021 7:25:08 GMT -5
There's one rule proposal (I assume for both leagues) that would make the DH go away when the starting pitcher gets pulled. Pluses- would provide more motivation to leave a starter in a bit longer AND (more importantly, IMHO), would render the "opener" a thing of the past (a team would lose its DH after at most one plate appearance, maybe none). Would make having pinch hitters on the roster a necessity. Would keep some of the managerial strategies (double switch, etc.) in the game (doesn't happen in an AL game). Minuses- good hitting starters wouldn't bat. Relievers might, and I bet you most of them, even the NL ones; haven't picked up a bat since they were in high school. Your thoughts? I'm one of the few baseball fans that doesn't have a strong opinion about the DH. I grew up as an AL fan in the DH era so I generally like it, but I'm not a die hard supporter. Combined with interleague play, the current situation is kind of messed up. I hate the "opener" thing. How bad does a pitching staff have to be that you can't find anyone to make a spot start? I'm sufficiently old to think the reason someone is a reliever is because they're not good enough to start
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Post by hchoops on Apr 24, 2021 7:52:43 GMT -5
There's one rule proposal (I assume for both leagues) that would make the DH go away when the starting pitcher gets pulled. Pluses- would provide more motivation to leave a starter in a bit longer AND (more importantly, IMHO), would render the "opener" a thing of the past (a team would lose its DH after at most one plate appearance, maybe none). Would make having pinch hitters on the roster a necessity. Would keep some of the managerial strategies (double switch, etc.) in the game (doesn't happen in an AL game). Minuses- good hitting starters wouldn't bat. Relievers might, and I bet you most of them, even the NL ones; haven't picked up a bat since they were in high school. Your thoughts? That proposal does not solve the biggest problem with the DH. No more Warren Spahn and Jake deGroms. Most pitchers were Little League top hitters. Let them take .BP and be the athletes they are capable of being.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 24, 2021 8:08:27 GMT -5
I agree that top pitchers are often top athletes and were very good hitters when younger. Let them take batting practice and help the team twice over.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 24, 2021 8:37:34 GMT -5
That proposal does not solve the biggest problem with the DH. No more Warren Spahn and Jake deGroms. Most pitchers were Little League top hitters. Let them take .BP and be the athletes they are capable of being. deGrom's career BA is .199. Spahn's was .194. I don't like the DH either, but most fans aren't particularly nostalgic about watching pitchers swing the bat.
Baseball's most pressing problem is not the DH, but rather that games take too damn long, and that's because pitchers take their sweet time doing the job they're paid for - pitching. Time taken between pitches is the single greatest contributor to the length of games. The NCAA is experimenting with a 20-second pitch clock, and I think MLB should do the same.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 24, 2021 9:17:27 GMT -5
That proposal does not solve the biggest problem with the DH. No more Warren Spahn and Jake deGroms. Most pitchers were Little League top hitters. Let them take .BP and be the athletes they are capable of being. deGrom's career BA is .199. Spahn's was .194. I don't like the DH either, but most fans aren't particularly nostalgic about watching pitchers swing the bat.
Baseball's most pressing problem is not the DH, but rather that games take too damn long, and that's because pitchers take their sweet time doing the job they're paid for - pitching. Time taken between pitches is the single greatest contributor to the length of games. The NCAA is experimenting with a 20-second pitch clock, and I think MLB should do the same.
Good idea last night ‘s deGrom special was 2:37 He works fast and very efficient
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 24, 2021 9:37:14 GMT -5
That proposal does not solve the biggest problem with the DH. No more Warren Spahn and Jake deGroms. Most pitchers were Little League top hitters. Let them take .BP and be the athletes they are capable of being. deGrom's career BA is .199. Spahn's was .194. I don't like the DH either, but most fans aren't particularly nostalgic about watching pitchers swing the bat.
Baseball's most pressing problem is not the DH, but rather that games take too damn long, and that's because pitchers take their sweet time doing the job they're paid for - pitching. Time taken between pitches is the single greatest contributor to the length of games. The NCAA is experimenting with a 20-second pitch clock, and I think MLB should do the same.
The pitch clock has been in the minor leagues since at LEAST 2015 www.milb.com/news/gcs-114596202
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Post by Tom on Apr 24, 2021 18:42:12 GMT -5
That proposal does not solve the biggest problem with the DH. No more Warren Spahn and Jake deGroms. Most pitchers were Little League top hitters. Let them take .BP and be the athletes they are capable of being. deGrom's career BA is .199. Spahn's was .194. I don't like the DH either, but most fans aren't particularly nostalgic about watching pitchers swing the bat.
Baseball's most pressing problem is not the DH, but rather that games take too damn long, and that's because pitchers take their sweet time doing the job they're paid for - pitching. Time taken between pitches is the single greatest contributor to the length of games. The NCAA is experimenting with a 20-second pitch clock, and I think MLB should do the same.
It wouldn't hurt if umpires weren't so free giving batters time out between pitches
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Post by alum on Apr 29, 2021 10:59:11 GMT -5
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