|
Post by WCHC Sports on May 31, 2023 10:49:15 GMT -5
1) This would NEVER have been approved it was flamboyant men/things/pick-your-pronouns walking around with A) skull caps, fake noses, white scarves, B) sexified hijabs or other headscarves, or C) traditional African tribal garb. There is a false equivalency between bad things the Church has done and them not being able to claim injustice of their own. 2) This is one of the fundamental flaws, and fears of early observers of democracies and their ability to function and succeed: that people wouldn't have a common, shared interest in a productive outcome that benefits many (a baseball game), but instead would just live in their isolated and ignorant hole, hating those who have a voice and have success until THEY become "king for a day." I can understand the sentiment that many in "majority" groups might feel threatened. It's about equality in many instances, but it seems like revenge in many others. Somebody marginalized a gay person or transvestite 50 years ago before I was alive? Great... NOW you're gonna see all forty of the people in the county who feel that way shut down the main roads and parade along. How do you feel about THAT?! Actually, you can't answer, because if you don't agree-- even though you weren't out with pitch forks and torches going on the offensive-- you are a bigot. There is no counter viewpoint acceptable. The 2% of the weirdos are driving the most powerful organizations, institutions, and businesses in the country. Not dialogue, not votes, not dollars. It's out of control. Why do you care what other people do with their lives and time? Does it bother you? Make you uncomfortable? Just turn your head and do what you want with your life! I would say the same thing to the "people" in your retort: "Why do you care that I watch the Dodgers play baseball and not worry about who they have sex with or what genitalia they have? Why does my hockey team need to wear a rainbow jersey? Does it bother you? Make you uncomfortable? Why don't you just turn your head and go be gay or feline or non-binary with your life!" Oops, now that makes me a bigot.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on May 31, 2023 10:56:08 GMT -5
Somebody marginalized a gay person or transvestite 50 years ago before I was alive? Great... NOW you're gonna see all forty of the people in the county who feel that way shut down the main roads and parade along.
You think that the marginalization of gay and trans Americans only happened fifty years ago, before you were born. Read the #$@&^*!ing newspaper. You think that there are only forty gay or trans people in America? Open your #$@&^*!ing eyes. I said county, not country. I know there are plenty more than forty gay people in the USA. There's probably a great deal that don't even have a label for what they feel. Tremendous.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on May 31, 2023 11:02:47 GMT -5
You think that the marginalization of gay and trans Americans only happened fifty years ago, before you were born. Read the #$@&^*!ing newspaper. You think that there are only forty gay or trans people in America? Open your #$@&^*!ing eyes. I think there are certain elements that are not trying to merely now be a part of culture and society, but would rather inundate and overwhelm it with their viewpoint and traditions due to completely understandable feelings of oppression, marginalization, anger, frustration, hostility, and revenge. There are far more people that think like me that a man wearing a skirt is weird, a woman identifying as a fox (vulpes vulpes) is ridiculous, and are sexually attracted to the opposite gender-- of which there are two. That doesn't make me or people that think like me "right," but it seems like there is a compulsion to identify every varied group and hand it the stage, microphone, or month of the year, and it seems like pandering by corporations to show how wonderful and open minded they are.
To a more extreme end, it seems like the goal is not merely to become a part of the wider social fabric, but the old fabric has to be replaced. It's racist that Ariel-- a cartoon of a fish person-- was white, so we must rush to remake it that they are black. It is not inclusive enough that the Fairy Godmother-- (godmothers are real, but I am rather certain fairies are not)-- was a white old lady, she now must be a black amorphous genderperson. I don't care much about Disney moves-- my kids love them in any era or remake-- but the objective isn't to create narratives and role models and stories that folks from all walks of life can see representation in. The objective has become to displace the traditions and ways of thinking-- both good and bad-- for the sake of a strange few.
Yea just like people in the 50's and 60's were complaining that women were getting too much power from voting in elections for the last 30 years and starting to get more involved in the workforce. Time changes perceptions on what is right and wrong.
|
|
|
Post by alum on May 31, 2023 11:03:15 GMT -5
You think that the marginalization of gay and trans Americans only happened fifty years ago, before you were born. Read the #$@&^*!ing newspaper. You think that there are only forty gay or trans people in America? Open your #$@&^*!ing eyes. I said county, not country. I know there are plenty more than forty gay people in the USA. There's probably a great deal that don't even have a label for what they feel. Tremendous. Sorry that I misread you. There are also a hell of a lot more than 40 people in all but the very smallest counties in the country who are gay.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on May 31, 2023 11:09:57 GMT -5
I think there are certain elements that are not trying to merely now be a part of culture and society, but would rather inundate and overwhelm it with their viewpoint and traditions due to completely understandable feelings of oppression, marginalization, anger, frustration, hostility, and revenge. There are far more people that think like me that a man wearing a skirt is weird, a woman identifying as a fox (vulpes vulpes) is ridiculous, and are sexually attracted to the opposite gender-- of which there are two. That doesn't make me or people that think like me "right," but it seems like there is a compulsion to identify every varied group and hand it the stage, microphone, or month of the year, and it seems like pandering by corporations to show how wonderful and open minded they are.
To a more extreme end, it seems like the goal is not merely to become a part of the wider social fabric, but the old fabric has to be replaced. It's racist that Ariel-- a cartoon of a fish person-- was white, so we must rush to remake it that they are black. It is not inclusive enough that the Fairy Godmother-- (godmothers are real, but I am rather certain fairies are not)-- was a white old lady, she now must be a black amorphous genderperson. I don't care much about Disney moves-- my kids love them in any era or remake-- but the objective isn't to create narratives and role models and stories that folks from all walks of life can see representation in. The objective has become to displace the traditions and ways of thinking-- both good and bad-- for the sake of a strange few.
Yea just like people in the 50's and 60's were complaining that women were getting too much power from voting in elections for the last 30 years and starting to get more involved in the workforce. Time changes perceptions on what is right and wrong. I totally agree that time changes perceptions on what is right and wrong. I certainly agree that I am not the arbiter of what is right and wrong before (or after) that time passes. The specifics I guess are important for those of us that follow religions or other various moral and social codes... but going into each particular hypothetical isn't scalable. Yes, giving women the right to vote seems to make sense. If power or influence was taken from the traditional stakeholders due to that suffrage, then it would be legally and democratically just. Backlash against a baseball team because they don't allow people to wear sex-ified habits-- or perhaps the baseball team feeling guilty before letting such a party take place in a specifically and specially scheduled endorsement of their cause-- seems a bit less justified in my opinion. Playing baseball versus suppressing voting rights seems incongruous.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 31, 2023 11:14:17 GMT -5
I keep seeing an ad for an upcoming Comedian Sarah Silverman HBO Max Special. She says "I'm so glad there are still Catholic Schools. They canceled the Boy Scouts and I thought they were going to cancel all the molesty things..."
It's hilarious with her comedic timing. I don't think Catholics are a protected minority or should be. I don't need a safe room to survive a Sarah Silverman quip. Sarah also skewers Germans about their connection to Nazis even though that was 80-90 years ago and once again because she is a talented pro, it's funny as heck just with her subtle facial expressions, comedic pauses, etc.
So don't expect to outlive jokes or other mentions of the flaws in the Catholic Church. Might as well enjoy them when the jokes are well done and the critical analysis is insightful.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on May 31, 2023 11:18:54 GMT -5
I keep seeing an ad for an upcoming Comedian Sarah Silverman HBO Max Special. She says "I'm so glad there are still Catholic Schools. They canceled the Boy Scouts and I thought they were going to cancel all the molesty things..." It's hilarious with her comedic timing. I don't think Catholics are a protected minority or should be. I don't need a safe room to survive a Sarah Silverman quip. Sarah also skewers Germans about their connection to Nazis even though that was 80-90 years ago and once again because she is a talented pro, it's funny as heck just with her subtle facial expressions, comedic pauses, etc. So don't expect to outlive jokes or other mentions of the flaws in the Catholic Church. Might as well enjoy them when the jokes are well done and the critical analysis is insightful. I'm totally okay with it. I like the Dave Chappelle approach: nobody is above reproach when it comes to comedy. I would bet my classic car that if they mocked Jewish, Black, or Muslim traditions for the sake of awareness/inclusion/etc., there would be picketing outside Dodger Stadium. Also, if they mocked gay/trans and dressed like the Village People in defense of Catholic traditions, there would be similar outrage (likely justified, to lend some of my mindset about it). It's just not a two-way street.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 31, 2023 11:43:30 GMT -5
Part of the issue is that the total number of active and non-active but raised Catholic Americans outnumber all the Black, Jewish and Muslim Americans combined. I thought Catholics would be a larger percentage but Google says 23% of Americans are Catholic, 48.9% are Protestant and 1.8% are Mormons, making the U S. the largest Christian country in the world.
Perhaps the 23% only includes active Catholics, or (shudder) the Church is significantly contracting, or maybe many of us live in a Catholic bubble and way more than 23% of people we interact with identify as Catholic.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on May 31, 2023 11:49:46 GMT -5
1) This would NEVER have been approved it was flamboyant men/things/pick-your-pronouns walking around with A) skull caps, fake noses, white scarves, B) sexified hijabs or other headscarves, or C) traditional African tribal garb. There is a false equivalency between bad things the Church has done and them not being able to claim injustice of their own. I don’t think that those who argue anti- Catholic hate and bigotry (much less honoring purveyors of such) is OK are actually serious. And the Dodgers have wisely avoided any such peculiar argumentation. I’m sure the employee who got them into this indefensible position is now on a remote scouting assignment of the long term variety. Connecting dots here... Kristin McCowan is the Dodgers' Senior Director, Government and Community Relations. This is her second season with the Dodgers. She has prior stops with: - Organizing for America...a community organizing project of the Democratic National Committee. Initially founded after the presidential inauguration of Barack Obama, the group sought to mobilize supporters in favor of Obama's legislative priorities, particularly health care reform - Courage California...a progressive grassroots advocacy organization founded in 2005. The organization claims an online grassroots activism network of over 1 million members. The group works on a variety of progressive causes including LGBT equality, gun control and healthcare reform - Executive Office of the President...Role of "Senior Advisor to the Director & Director of Presidential Transition" (under Obama) - Director of International Relations and Chief of Protocol, Office of Mayor Eric Garcetti- Getty House Foundation...a non profit organization dedicated to civic education, community engagement, and the preservation of Getty House, the Official Mayoral Residence of Los Angeles. We also know that Mark Walter, one of the big guys in the Guggenheim group that owns the Dodgers, has donated to the DNC and Obama campaign in the past. Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss -- prominent LGBTQI++ figures -- also are part owners of the Dodgers. Doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that the Dodgers are doing this. And this isn't even touching ESG rating and the implications that has financially...
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on May 31, 2023 12:12:25 GMT -5
"Doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that the Dodgers are doing this. "
Let's see: a woman works for the Dodgers who in her past advocated for health care reform, LGBTQ equality, and gun control, and also worked for Mayor Garcetti, and therefore it's not surprising that the Dodgers are celebrating a group that mocks Catholic traditions and rituals?
This is pretty lame "connecting of the dots".
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on May 31, 2023 12:22:58 GMT -5
"Doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that the Dodgers are doing this. " Let's see: a woman works for the Dodgers who in her past advocated for health care reform, LGBTQ equality, and gun control, and also worked for Mayor Garcetti, and therefore it's not surprising that the Dodgers are celebrating a group that mocks Catholic traditions and rituals? This is pretty lame "connecting of the dots". Well, that's your interpretation (the bold part). The Dodgers might say the Sisters do the following, which is why they are being honored -- "...raise money for AIDS, LGBT-related causes, and mainstream community service organizations, while promoting safer sex and educating others about the harmful effects of drug use and other high risk behaviors."
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on May 31, 2023 13:13:00 GMT -5
From what I can see it looks like the "Sisters" do both, i.e. raise money, promote safe sex, etc. and mock the Church. I think the Dodgers could have had a robust Pride celebration without including the "Sisters". I don't think it's my interpretation that the "sisters" mock Catholic ritual. They're aggressively overt about it; it's their identity. Like some other posters I'm fine with lampooning religion (any religion), and the Catholic Church has earned its share, but the "Sisters" seems over the top to me.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on May 31, 2023 14:58:08 GMT -5
Part of the issue is that the total number of active and non-active but raised Catholic Americans outnumber all the Black, Jewish and Muslim Americans combined. I thought Catholics would be a larger percentage but Google says 23% of Americans are Catholic, 48.9% are Protestant and 1.8% are Mormons, making the U S. the largest Christian country in the world. Perhaps the 23% only includes active Catholics, or (shudder) the Church is significantly contracting, or maybe many of us live in a Catholic bubble and way more than 23% of people we interact with identify as Catholic. Might be a regional thing too. I think there are concentrations in the northeast. In the south not so much as Baptists are much more common
|
|
|
Post by Tom on May 31, 2023 15:04:04 GMT -5
I don’t think that those who argue anti- Catholic hate and bigotry (much less honoring purveyors of such) is OK are actually serious. And the Dodgers have wisely avoided any such peculiar argumentation. I’m sure the employee who got them into this indefensible position is now on a remote scouting assignment of the long term variety. Connecting dots here... Kristin McCowan is the Dodgers' Senior Director, Government and Community Relations. This is her second season with the Dodgers. She has prior stops with: - Organizing for America...a community organizing project of the Democratic National Committee. Initially founded after the presidential inauguration of Barack Obama, the group sought to mobilize supporters in favor of Obama's legislative priorities, particularly health care reform - Courage California...a progressive grassroots advocacy organization founded in 2005. The organization claims an online grassroots activism network of over 1 million members. The group works on a variety of progressive causes including LGBT equality, gun control and healthcare reform - Executive Office of the President...Role of "Senior Advisor to the Director & Director of Presidential Transition" (under Obama) - Director of International Relations and Chief of Protocol, Office of Mayor Eric Garcetti- Getty House Foundation...a non profit organization dedicated to civic education, community engagement, and the preservation of Getty House, the Official Mayoral Residence of Los Angeles. We also know that Mark Walter, one of the big guys in the Guggenheim group that owns the Dodgers, has donated to the DNC and Obama campaign in the past. Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss -- prominent LGBTQI++ figures -- also are part owners of the Dodgers. Doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that the Dodgers are doing this. And this isn't even touching ESG rating and the implications that has financially... Sounds like the Dodgers would have been better served by hiring former poster Ryan Holt who, last I knew, has been doing marketing type things for an AHL team in California
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 31, 2023 15:08:45 GMT -5
Connecting dots here... Kristin McCowan is the Dodgers' Senior Director, Government and Community Relations. This is her second season with the Dodgers. She has prior stops with: - Organizing for America...a community organizing project of the Democratic National Committee. Initially founded after the presidential inauguration of Barack Obama, the group sought to mobilize supporters in favor of Obama's legislative priorities, particularly health care reform - Courage California...a progressive grassroots advocacy organization founded in 2005. The organization claims an online grassroots activism network of over 1 million members. The group works on a variety of progressive causes including LGBT equality, gun control and healthcare reform - Executive Office of the President...Role of "Senior Advisor to the Director & Director of Presidential Transition" (under Obama) - Director of International Relations and Chief of Protocol, Office of Mayor Eric Garcetti- Getty House Foundation...a non profit organization dedicated to civic education, community engagement, and the preservation of Getty House, the Official Mayoral Residence of Los Angeles. We also know that Mark Walter, one of the big guys in the Guggenheim group that owns the Dodgers, has donated to the DNC and Obama campaign in the past. Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss -- prominent LGBTQI++ figures -- also are part owners of the Dodgers. Doesn't come as much of a surprise to me that the Dodgers are doing this. And this isn't even touching ESG rating and the implications that has financially... Sounds like the Dodgers would have been better served by hiring former poster Ryan Holt who, last I knew, has been doing marketing type things for an AHL team in California Maybe the genius employee behind this self-inflicted public relations disaster could team with the Bud Light genius and form some sort of tone-deaf special events firm. Like minstrel shows, transvestite faux nuns, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jun 1, 2023 7:57:41 GMT -5
Sounds like the Dodgers would have been better served by hiring former poster Ryan Holt who, last I knew, has been doing marketing type things for an AHL team in California Maybe the genius employee behind this self-inflicted public relations disaster could team with the Bud Light genius and form some sort of tone-deaf special events firm. Like minstrel shows, transvestite faux nuns, etc. OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jun 1, 2023 8:26:22 GMT -5
Maybe the genius employee behind this self-inflicted public relations disaster could team with the Bud Light genius and form some sort of tone-deaf special events firm. Like minstrel shows, transvestite faux nuns, etc. OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Pride Month starts today. Should businesses hang a rainbow flag? What if they think it is good for business?
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Jun 1, 2023 8:58:15 GMT -5
Maybe the genius employee behind this self-inflicted public relations disaster could team with the Bud Light genius and form some sort of tone-deaf special events firm. Like minstrel shows, transvestite faux nuns, etc. OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Publicly honoring an anti-Catholic hate group is something we don't see much of this century. So that’s something to add to the Dodgers’ legacy.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 1, 2023 9:28:59 GMT -5
OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Pride Month starts today. Should businesses hang a rainbow flag? What if they think it is good for business? Spend ten minutes on LinkedIn today and find that companies ranging from IBM and Microsoft to a cardboard box designer you've never heard of before are so inclined to pixelate their logos with the rainbow colors this month. Clearly, a rainbow McDonalds logo is going to defend the honor and real-life challenges of homosexuals. I personally think they'd be better off giving a $2 coupon for McNuggets if you bring your husband in. At least that's a tangible benefit.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jun 1, 2023 9:44:07 GMT -5
Pride Month starts today. Should businesses hang a rainbow flag? What if they think it is good for business? Spend ten minutes on LinkedIn today and find that companies ranging from IBM and Microsoft to a cardboard box designer you've never heard of before are so inclined to pixelate their logos with the rainbow colors this month. Clearly, a rainbow McDonalds logo is going to defend the honor and real-life challenges of homosexuals. I personally think they'd be better off giving a $2 coupon for McNuggets if you bring your husband in. At least that's a tangible benefit. I guess you can't go to McDonald's now because they have a rainbow logo. It just changes their food for you and your family.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jun 1, 2023 9:49:35 GMT -5
Pride Month starts today. Should businesses hang a rainbow flag? What if they think it is good for business? Spend ten minutes on LinkedIn today and find that companies ranging from IBM and Microsoft to a cardboard box designer you've never heard of before are so inclined to pixelate their logos with the rainbow colors this month. Clearly, a rainbow McDonalds logo is going to defend the honor and real-life challenges of homosexuals. I personally think they'd be better off giving a $2 coupon for McNuggets if you bring your husband in. At least that's a tangible benefit. A rainbow at McDonald's says all are welcome. I am sure you know that there have been times in our country where restaurants said some were not. I think that all of the synoptic Gospels include references to not hiding a light under the basket. See, for example, Matthew 5:15-16 which tells us: "Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father." — Matthew 5:15-16, New American Bible Revised Edition A very prominent member of Congress said this week, "“What you choose to do sexually is not your identity,” ... And it shouldn’t be the face that you wear publicly,” And she claims to be a Christian as she calls on Target to hide its light under a basket.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 1, 2023 9:57:07 GMT -5
Someone's sexuality doesn't define them. No person can be broken down to a label that simply, right? Aren't we more complex and nuanced and special than that? "Respect the choices of individuals and what they prefer to do in their own lives and with their own relationships," say the companies that will find ways to remind everyone else about gay pride who have nothing to do with being gay over the next thirty days. Contrived at best, and hypocrisy at worst.
Foley, I think McDonald's food sucks, by the way... but do we really need our baseball teams and chicken nuggets and cloud services providers and exterminators and cell phone providers and automakers to tell us how gay they are? It's completely irrelevant to how we live our lives. It's pandering to a crowd that already likes their chicken nuggets and fast internet and getting rid of mosquitoes and calling their boyfriend on their cellphone to talk about it, just like the rest of us. It sort of cheapens the discussion and highlights differences, which can only touch off resentment, instead of focusing on the "categories" that in my humble opinion limit the scope of who a person completely is.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 1, 2023 10:17:15 GMT -5
Maybe the genius employee behind this self-inflicted public relations disaster could team with the Bud Light genius and form some sort of tone-deaf special events firm. Like minstrel shows, transvestite faux nuns, etc. OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Be interesting see if Bud Light / ABinBev have any pride posts this month.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jun 1, 2023 10:25:27 GMT -5
OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Be interesting see if Bud Light / ABinBev have any pride posts this month. Budweiser and Bud Light both haven't tweeted since April 14th.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jun 1, 2023 10:56:49 GMT -5
OK - I'm just going to quote myself I don't think this is going to hurt the Dodgers that much in the long run, but Bud Lite is the poster child of why businesses should stay above the fray Pride Month starts today. Should businesses hang a rainbow flag? What if they think it is good for business? Risk/Reward If you honestly think a rainbow flag is going to bring in extra business in excess of business lost, go for it. There is risk involved, because it is hard to gage what loss will be. I think you should have a reasonable expectation of a pretty good increase in business to take that risk. Some people will like it, some won't, probably most won't care. Of the people with an opinion, some will have a strong enough opinion to make spending choices. I suppose it depends on your business model. I think a rainbow flag will bring more business into a hang out type of business like a bar than a quick transaction place like a gas station. Three months ago Anheuser-Busch might have thought hanging a rainbow flag would be good for business. My guess is I won't see it flying over corporate headquarters in St Louis
|
|