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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 21, 2023 17:03:04 GMT -5
What it cost What others spend in the Pioneer, Patriot, NEC, CAA, Valley, Sky, Southern and the others How much is handled by the CAF Total school expense The CAF covers less than 10 percent of the total cost for football, closer to five percent than 10 percent.
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Post by thecrossisback on Sept 21, 2023 17:09:23 GMT -5
Leaving might make it more appealing for Chesney to stay!
Leave the Patriot League!
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2023 17:57:58 GMT -5
"all it takes is one football member leaving to disrupt the system and we lose the autobid" I thought we needed to lose 2 schools to lose the autobid? Is that wrong? You are correct, RGS. 6 team minimum for football. I was thinking we only had 6 teams in the league. Forgot about Bucknell when I was counting. You can't be blamed for that.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2023 18:06:59 GMT -5
This discussion is unlikely to effect any changes but it's more fun than a barrel of monkeys.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 21, 2023 18:17:52 GMT -5
Question: What is the annual expense for HC to field a football team? That’s a more interesting poll question vs the PL stuff. I’m curious how much many here think it costs, and how much is covered by HC vs CAF/Gridiron Club donations. Why do you ask? An HC classmate, retired university prof. is opposed to HC fielding a football team. He claims it is not worth the great expense to field a football team given the exigencies of college budgets. He believes it is more cost effective to concentrate on basketball and to a lesser degree"minor sports." In sum he favors a smaller athletics budget with increases in spending on academics & other areas of campus life. Does the school lose a lot of money on football? How much? I chose HC over G-town in part due to football. My dad was incredulous. At the time I asked "What would I do on beautiful Saturday afternoons without football?". His response? Try studying. Actually, he attended Fordham in the '20's - early '30's and fully understood. As an older alum, what would I do now without HC football on Saturday afternoons? Probably, take a nap. Obviously, I made the right choice.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 21, 2023 18:33:55 GMT -5
Leaving might make it more appealing for Chesney to stay! Leave the Patriot League! Doesn't make a difference IMO. Chesney next move is FBS.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 21, 2023 18:41:57 GMT -5
That’s a more interesting poll question vs the PL stuff. I’m curious how much many here think it costs, and how much is covered by HC vs CAF/Gridiron Club donations. Why do you ask? An HC classmate, retired university prof. is opposed to HC fielding a football team. He claims it is not worth the great expense to field a football team given the exigencies of college budgets. He believes it is more cost effective to concentrate on basketball and to a lesser degree"minor sports." In sum he favors a smaller athletics budget with increases in spending on academics & other areas of campus life. Does the school lose a lot of money on football? How much? I chose HC over G-town in part due to football. My dad was incredulous. At the time I asked "What would I do on beautiful Saturday afternoons without football?". His response? Try studying. Actually, he attended Fordham in the '20's - early '30's and fully understood. As an older alum, what would I do now without HC football on Saturday afternoons? Probably, take a nap. Obviously, I made the right choice. Does your classmate know HC loses money on Dinand Library each year? He would say “Well, the college needs a library. It’s an integral part of learning and campus life.” Similarly, the football program is a big part of campus life, bringing students, alumni, and the community together.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 21, 2023 18:44:05 GMT -5
That’s a more interesting poll question vs the PL stuff. I’m curious how much many here think it costs, and how much is covered by HC vs CAF/Gridiron Club donations. Why do you ask? An HC classmate, retired university prof. is opposed to HC fielding a football team. He claims it is not worth the great expense to field a football team given the exigencies of college budgets. He believes it is more cost effective to concentrate on basketball and to a lesser degree"minor sports." In sum he favors a smaller athletics budget with increases in spending on academics & other areas of campus life. Does the school lose a lot of money on football? How much? I chose HC over G-town in part due to football. My dad was incredulous. At the time I asked "What would I do on beautiful Saturday afternoons without football?". His response? Try studying. Actually, he attended Fordham in the '20's - early '30's and fully understood. As an older alum, what would I do now without HC football on Saturday afternoons? Probably, take a nap. Obviously, I made the right choice. If your friend took a look at a 2023 tuition bill, he'd understand that the school is financially holding up just fine when it comes to having capital available for both academics and a great football program.
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Post by lehighowl on Sept 21, 2023 19:36:42 GMT -5
This is an interesting thread. When Lehigh was running off 3 straight 10 win seasons a decade ago, had playoffs wins over the MVFC and CAA Champ, and a Payton Award Runner-up I never recall supporters suggesting Lehigh leave the league. No doubt the league has its issues but it still provides programs a platform to compete at the highest level in FCS if the institution has the dexterity/ambition to make it work.
Holy Cross has a comet like Lehigh had with Higgins (12-1, 10-2, 12-1 before he left) in Chesney. The question is what happens next? I never imagined the Coen Era at Lehigh would both end how it did and lead to the darkest stretch in 60 years. Lehigh was setup for a nice run from 2015 through at least 2018 but fate dealt a cruel hand. With that said, Lehigh will be back! Personally, I think Lehigh will be back in contention next year with a few tweaks/key transfers. Lafayette seems to be on the upswing with Troxell too. He's a proven head coach. Colgate? Great track record but the Raiders really need the right person to sell the 'Gate experience (small crowds, small/remote town, tons of snow etc). Fordham has proven they can succeed with multiple coaches which has allowed the Rams to emerge as one of the more consistent programs in the Northeast this century. With that said, how much longer is Conlin staying in the Bronx? His stock has to be rising despite his propensity (and his team's) to do goofy things at times.
If UD does opt for FBS I'm very much interested to see what happens with Villanova, UNH, Richmond and W&M. Those 4 can/will have a "significant" influence on FCS football in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast/New England.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 21, 2023 19:54:36 GMT -5
All good points although truth be told I don't equate academic expenses with athletics. The comparison is not on point. Nonetheless, what does football cost per annum? What is the expense? How much in the red is the program annually? Honestly I have no idea. I never looked at football or other HC teams from an expense perspective. My curiosity has been stimulated. I disagree with my classmate. He was responding to my excitement about recent HC football success. Rest assured I would not be on this board if I did not support HC football. Is there anyone who has the numbers?
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 21, 2023 20:26:33 GMT -5
Leaving might make it more appealing for Chesney to stay! Leave the Patriot League! Doesn't make a difference IMO. Chesney next move is FBS. I'm surprised someone hasn't suggested bringing the FBS to Chesney yet and elevating the program. Although I do not think that is the right move, it'd be fun to show UMass how it is done
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 224
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Post by hc69 on Sept 21, 2023 20:45:01 GMT -5
Many, many years ago when I was in grad school I spent five years as paramedic. We could always tell when a full moon was coming because it brought out the inner crazy in people. I think a full moon is coming . . .
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Post by thecrossisback on Sept 21, 2023 20:48:37 GMT -5
Many, many years ago when I was in grad school I spent five years as paramedic. We could always tell when a full moon was coming because it brought out the inner crazy in people. I think a full moon is coming . . . Honestly did you think you would ever see HC play BC in a 3 point game ever again. College football is changing. Adapt what do we owe the Patriot League. The basketball conference has misfits in it. No hockey and its baseball conference is a stacked against us. (Army and Navy) It’s time to move on. Let somebody else carry the flickering light for the PL.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 21, 2023 22:39:57 GMT -5
Athletic Also Rans get no love. "Nobody ever died for dear old Rutgers" -MM67. "Let somebody else carry the flickering light for the Patriot League." -thecrossisback.
The only silver lining is when a Patriot League team wins a national title it's going to be a heck of a story.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 21, 2023 23:15:05 GMT -5
There is a 0.00000% chance of Holy Cross ever going FBS.
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Post by Ignutz on Sept 22, 2023 6:08:45 GMT -5
There is a 0.00000% chance of Holy Cross ever going FBS. I think your estimate is a bit on the high side.
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Post by alum on Sept 22, 2023 6:48:35 GMT -5
This is a post about tomorrow's game on the Colgate message board by someone responding to another poster who suggested the line might be 30 points. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My god, 30 point underdogs to HC!
At the risk of sounding like my parents, a la the Progressive Insurance ads -
Hunt was 5-1 against HC; Biddle was 12-6; in the 20 years before the gutting we were 13-3-2 against the Crusaders
Colgate played nationally ranked I-A teams during my time where the point spread was less!
I could go on but will stop
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This era of success is fun, but let's remember that there is no guarantee that it lasts forever. Do we want to be in a tougher league in all sports if the next football coach is a gridiron version of Sean Kearny or Brett Nelson?
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 22, 2023 6:56:22 GMT -5
Higher education institutions have all but taken a final step to farm systems for pro gladiatorial completions (i.e. systems that help adolescent athletes mature into adult ones). The pervasiveness of media makes it easier fund, at least partially, the cost associated with this system.
The PL is on the edge of the university football system & could use another institution for adolescent formation to be more stable,
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Post by efg72 on Sept 22, 2023 7:17:53 GMT -5
Perhaps the best option for now might be to pressure the PL to do the following:
Hire a proven and driven Administrative team Make significant investments to promote the league and maximize it's exposure Fix the basic program problems of the league- nonmedical 5th year etc. Require member schools to make real commitments to football and improve the bottom of the conference
Phase Two Over the next 24 months make sure you can retain the current schools Using the campaign to promote the league add three quality schools- similar to the current PL football membership (CAA members or FBS schools that lose in the realignment). These additions can be football only if needed. Allows for two/three non conference games and include up to two buy games each year
Thoughts for a Friday morning
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Post by timholycross on Sept 22, 2023 7:20:09 GMT -5
Open to “other” but need to know what “other” would be. Change for the sake of change is not compelling and does nothing to change past decisions. So voted option 1. Trust that HC is keeping close eyes on the landscape. I'm in the same boat. Would like to vote for #4, but don't see an alternative. HC needs another Father Brooks to put another league together.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 22, 2023 7:29:07 GMT -5
We might be closer than we think to losing a team from the PL that is not HC. What is the plan to find the right member- please don't offer up the other New England schools, as they don't meet the desired academic profile that so many supporters feel is required. It is easy to become an academic version of the CAA with expansion, a league that could receive multiple bids, and not lose any current members. I don't see Fordham getting into bed with the new CAA members either.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 22, 2023 7:36:47 GMT -5
This is an interesting thread. When Lehigh was running off 3 straight 10 win seasons a decade ago, had playoffs wins over the MVFC and CAA Champ, and a Payton Award Runner-up I never recall supporters suggesting Lehigh leave the league. No doubt the league has its issues but it still provides programs a platform to compete at the highest level in FCS if the institution has the dexterity/ambition to make it work. Holy Cross has a comet like Lehigh had with Higgins (12-1, 10-2, 12-1 before he left) in Chesney. The question is what happens next? I never imagined the Coen Era at Lehigh would both end how it did and lead to the darkest stretch in 60 years. Lehigh was setup for a nice run from 2015 through at least 2018 but fate dealt a cruel hand. With that said, Lehigh will be back! Personally, I think Lehigh will be back in contention next year with a few tweaks/key transfers. Lafayette seems to be on the upswing with Troxell too. He's a proven head coach. Colgate? Great track record but the Raiders really need the right person to sell the 'Gate experience (small crowds, small/remote town, tons of snow etc). Fordham has proven they can succeed with multiple coaches which has allowed the Rams to emerge as one of the more consistent programs in the Northeast this century. With that said, how much longer is Conlin staying in the Bronx? His stock has to be rising despite his propensity (and his team's) to do goofy things at times. If UD does opt for FBS I'm very much interested to see what happens with Villanova, UNH, Richmond and W&M. Those 4 can/will have a "significant" influence on FCS football in the Mid-Atlantic/Northeast/New England. (not saying this should have happened or should happen in the future). The whole PL experience for Holy Cross would have been much more satisfying if its long time rival were here sharing the joy/misery with us. Lehigh's always had Lafayette and vice-versa.
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Post by trimster on Sept 22, 2023 7:43:06 GMT -5
Perhaps the best option for now might be to pressure the PL to do the following: Hire a proven and driven Administrative team Make significant investments to promote the league and maximize it's exposure Fix the basic program problems of the league- nonmedical 5th year etc. Require member schools to make real commitments to football and improve the bottom of the conference Phase Two Over the next 24 months make sure you can retain the current schools Using the campaign to promote the league add three quality schools- similar to the current PL football membership (CAA members or FBS schools that lose in the realignment). These additions can be football only if needed. Allows for two/three non conference games and include up to two buy games each year Thoughts for a Friday morning I couldn’t agree more. I have resigned myself to HC being in the PL for the duration. That being the case, the PL should do all it can to make the league stronger. I believe there are several schools in the CAA who aren’t happy with the direction the league has taken. These schools definitely fit the academic profile of the league and would give the PL a nice bump football-wise. I also would like to see a couple of New England schools join as all sports minus football, to give HC a couple of neighbors. They fit the academic profile of the league and I suspect they aren’t all that thrilled with the MAAC and the CAA.
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mainejeff
Climbing Mt. St. James
UMaine Sports Forum: https://umainesports.freeforums.net
Posts: 77
Member is Online
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Post by mainejeff on Sept 22, 2023 7:49:22 GMT -5
If you can show me how the following rights schools academic reputations and rankings have take a hit as a result of being in conferences without academic peers / like-minded schools, you have my attention: Vanderbilt - SEC Stanford - PAC12 MIT - NEWMAC Duke - ACC Northwestern - Big Ten Rice - AAC Notre Dame - ACC Georgetown - Big East No one can do that. Because it hasn't happened. It wouldn't happen to Holy Cross either. Not for one second. I will never understand the idea of being involved with crappy athletic schools in order to be aligned with similar academic profiled schools. I just will never get this argument. It holds zero water. It's a wanna be Ivy thought. I totally agree with this. No one....and I mean no one....chooses a school based on who they play in an athletic conference. You think someone is not going to attend Vanderbilt because they play Alabama and LSU? I'm not going to attend Stanford because they are (were) in a league with Arizona and Arizona State! It's academic snobbery sold by the President's office...and many alums buy in because it makes them feel superior. Now if Holy Cross feels like the Patriot model works for them....then that is a definite difference from other leagues and I respect that. However, I think that in a rapidly changing world of higher education and college athletics...I think that Holy Cross should examine other avenues for conference affiliation that allows them more flexibility in growing their athletic programs in terms of success and visibility.
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Post by joe on Sept 22, 2023 8:05:43 GMT -5
Once Chesney leaves we’ll be glad we stayed in the PL. true story.
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