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Post by trimster on Sept 26, 2023 15:31:55 GMT -5
I have been thinking along those lines minus Delaware, for some time. I’d gladly take the Blue Hens as an all-sport member. Scheduling non-con games in hoops is going to get more difficult so I wouldn’t mind more league games if the alternative is a bunch of low D1 opponents.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 26, 2023 17:38:58 GMT -5
The cobwebs lobby is pushing for a PL basketball tournament where all participants are visiting teams.🙂 I remember reading about how other MAAC schools were resentful with the league tournament being held in Albany so often but it was the only place that drew a good crowd. The MAAC had their tourney at the almost 15,000 capacity Jim Whelan Hall in Atlantic City last season. Siena drew 1954 for their one game vs Niagara. The rabid sold out championship game environment (think Hart Center during the Willard championship home games) at a home arena are hard to be duplicated with both participants on the road. A new expanded PL might be different. In the current PL, the home-court model makes sense. The schools that draw well historically (HC, Bucknell) are geographic outliers. The Naval Academy and Annapolis would be a nice spot to have it, but again geographic outlier. West Point has a nice enough facility to host it but middle of nowhere...literally has been rated the worst college town in America....and of course Army very rarely makes it past the quarters. Maybe that would change their luck a little. Doubt it though. The MAAC every 3 or 4 years will go away from Albany just so that Siena doesn't have home court ALL the time. But it makes sense as it's even distance between the metro NYC schools and the Buffalo schools. Apparently, a future conference tourney in AC was a carrot the MAAC dangled when they got Monmouth to join the league. And of course, they're no longer in the league. The MAAC/Albany/Siena situation was similar to the CAA which was held in downtown Richmond for over 25 years while VCU was a member. But it never seemed like VCU ever had a decidedly overwhelming home court advantage. St. John's / MSG / Big East same thing. Having one school get a slight home court edge is IMO outweighed by what often turns out to be a great three or four-night event for the host conference.
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 26, 2023 19:00:25 GMT -5
The cobwebs lobby is pushing for a PL basketball tournament where all participants are visiting teams.🙂 I remember reading about how other MAAC schools were resentful with the league tournament being held in Albany so often but it was the only place that drew a good crowd. The MAAC had their tourney at the almost 15,000 capacity Jim Whelan Hall in Atlantic City last season. Siena drew 1954 for their one game vs Niagara. The rabid sold out championship game environment (think Hart Center during the Willard championship home games) at a home arena are hard to be duplicated with both participants on the road. A new expanded PL might be different. In the current PL, the home-court model makes sense. The schools that draw well historically (HC, Bucknell) are geographic outliers. The Naval Academy and Annapolis would be a nice spot to have it, but again geographic outlier. West Point has a nice enough facility to host it but middle of nowhere...literally has been rated the worst college town in America....and of course Army very rarely makes it past the quarters. Maybe that would change their luck a little. Doubt it though. The MAAC every 3 or 4 years will go away from Albany just so that Siena doesn't have home court ALL the time. But it makes sense as it's even distance between the metro NYC schools and the Buffalo schools. Apparently, a future conference tourney in AC was a carrot the MAAC dangled when they got Monmouth to join the league. And of course, they're no longer in the league. The MAAC/Albany/Siena situation was similar to the CAA which was held in downtown Richmond for over 25 years while VCU was a member. But it never seemed like VCU ever had a decidedly overwhelming home court advantage. St. John's / MSG / Big East same thing. Having one school get a slight home court edge is IMO outweighed by what often turns out to be a great three or four-night event for the host conference. The MAC tournament used to be at the Cavs arena (might still be) same problems with some of the schools.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 26, 2023 20:29:55 GMT -5
Same issue in Atlantic Hockey had the championship in Rochester at the War Memorial for ages of imperial rule. I remember taking on AFA back in 2011. Made it to the semifinals or the first night. Good home ice advantage for RIT. Went to campus sites last year after a brief stint in the middle of nowhere in Utica. Rochester would make sense for ECAC, but a bit out of the way for us I say. Albany or Springfield might be better (not for AFA though!)
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 26, 2023 20:32:46 GMT -5
The cobwebs lobby is pushing for a PL basketball tournament where all participants are visiting teams.🙂 I remember reading about how other MAAC schools were resentful with the league tournament being held in Albany so often but it was the only place that drew a good crowd. The MAAC had their tourney at the almost 15,000 capacity Jim Whelan Hall in Atlantic City last season. Siena drew 1954 for their one game vs Niagara. The rabid sold out championship game environment (think Hart Center during the Willard championship home games) at a home arena are hard to be duplicated with both participants on the road. A new expanded PL might be different. In the current PL, the home-court model makes sense. The schools that draw well historically (HC, Bucknell) are geographic outliers. The Naval Academy and Annapolis would be a nice spot to have it, but again geographic outlier. West Point has a nice enough facility to host it but middle of nowhere...literally has been rated the worst college town in America....and of course Army very rarely makes it past the quarters. Maybe that would change their luck a little. Doubt it though. The MAAC every 3 or 4 years will go away from Albany just so that Siena doesn't have home court ALL the time. But it makes sense as it's even distance between the metro NYC schools and the Buffalo schools. Apparently, a future conference tourney in AC was a carrot the MAAC dangled when they got Monmouth to join the league. And of course, they're no longer in the league. The MAAC/Albany/Siena situation was similar to the CAA which was held in downtown Richmond for over 25 years while VCU was a member. But it never seemed like VCU ever had a decidedly overwhelming home court advantage. St. John's / MSG / Big East same thing. Having one school get a slight home court edge is IMO outweighed by what often turns out to be a great three or four-night event for the host conference. Former WBB coach BG said either at a Coaches night or an interview that the WBB players looked forward to the social element of the annual league banquet held before the first round when all teams were represented at a single location. I seem to recall the women gave up on a single location tournament a year or two after the men or maybe they just held a league banquet a year or two longer. Maybe there still are league banquets, but haven't heard any reference in many years.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 26, 2023 21:58:40 GMT -5
Same issue in Atlantic Hockey had the championship in Rochester at the War Memorial for ages of imperial rule. I remember taking on AFA back in 2011. Made it to the semifinals or the first night. Good home ice advantage for RIT. Went to campus sites last year after a brief stint in the middle of nowhere in Utica. Rochester would make sense for ECAC, but a bit out of the way for us I say. Albany or Springfield might be better (not for AFA though!) Should not be an issue for AFA, they can fly into Westover or Barnes without a problem to get to Springfield. I would prefer that the PL tournament alternate between the Agganis Arena ( since neither BU basketball team uses it as a home court) and Alumni Hall at the Naval Academy for the men’s and women’s teams. Each year one of the sites would host either tournament. Hotels are plentiful in either Boston or Annapolis/Baltimore or DC, and Airports are accessible for the teams and fans. With this approach, fans can plan well in advance the location for the tournaments and not have to scramble at the last minute regarding travel and hotel accommodations.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 27, 2023 0:13:40 GMT -5
Same issue in Atlantic Hockey had the championship in Rochester at the War Memorial for ages of imperial rule. I remember taking on AFA back in 2011. Made it to the semifinals or the first night. Good home ice advantage for RIT. Went to campus sites last year after a brief stint in the middle of nowhere in Utica. Rochester would make sense for ECAC, but a bit out of the way for us I say. Albany or Springfield might be better (not for AFA though!) Should not be an issue for AFA, they can fly into Westover or Barnes without a problem to get to Springfield. I would prefer that the PL tournament alternate between the Agganis Arena ( since neither BU basketball team uses it as a home court) and Alumni Hall at the Naval Academy for the men’s and women’s teams. Each year one of the sites would host either tournament. Hotels are plentiful in either Boston or Annapolis/Baltimore or DC, and Airports are accessible for the teams and fans. With this approach, fans can plan well in advance the location for the tournaments and not have to scramble at the last minute regarding travel and hotel accommodations. A destination tournament. Good idea.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 27, 2023 5:59:38 GMT -5
Same issue in Atlantic Hockey had the championship in Rochester at the War Memorial for ages of imperial rule. I remember taking on AFA back in 2011. Made it to the semifinals or the first night. Good home ice advantage for RIT. Went to campus sites last year after a brief stint in the middle of nowhere in Utica. Rochester would make sense for ECAC, but a bit out of the way for us I say. Albany or Springfield might be better (not for AFA though!) Should not be an issue for AFA, they can fly into Westover or Barnes without a problem to get to Springfield. I would prefer that the PL tournament alternate between the Agganis Arena ( since neither BU basketball team uses it as a home court) and Alumni Hall at the Naval Academy for the men’s and women’s teams. Each year one of the sites would host either tournament. Hotels are plentiful in either Boston or Annapolis/Baltimore or DC, and Airports are accessible for the teams and fans. With this approach, fans can plan well in advance the location for the tournaments and not have to scramble at the last minute regarding travel and hotel accommodations. Attendance would likely be in the hundreds for early round games.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 27, 2023 6:18:21 GMT -5
Same issue in Atlantic Hockey had the championship in Rochester at the War Memorial for ages of imperial rule. I remember taking on AFA back in 2011. Made it to the semifinals or the first night. Good home ice advantage for RIT. Went to campus sites last year after a brief stint in the middle of nowhere in Utica. Rochester would make sense for ECAC, but a bit out of the way for us I say. Albany or Springfield might be better (not for AFA though!) Rochester is almost too centrally located. Still a fairly long trip for the likes of Mercyhurst and Bob Morris and also a long trip for HC, AIC, SHU and Bentley. Maybe alternate between Buffalo and Springfield? I love the arena in Springfield, if the place was even half full for a conference championship, would be a lot of fun. My 3 year old daughter has been twice with me to see HC-AIC, once of course for our playoff WIN.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 27, 2023 6:28:05 GMT -5
Should not be an issue for AFA, they can fly into Westover or Barnes without a problem to get to Springfield. I would prefer that the PL tournament alternate between the Agganis Arena ( since neither BU basketball team uses it as a home court) and Alumni Hall at the Naval Academy for the men’s and women’s teams. Each year one of the sites would host either tournament. Hotels are plentiful in either Boston or Annapolis/Baltimore or DC, and Airports are accessible for the teams and fans. With this approach, fans can plan well in advance the location for the tournaments and not have to scramble at the last minute regarding travel and hotel accommodations. Attendance would likely be in the hundreds for early round games. What makes it tough for the PL is because so many of our members are in pretty remote locations, the only destination sites that really make sense are on opposite ends of the league geography. And the only two programs with a big enough following historically to realistically travel are at polar ends of the footprint. The key to getting a neutral site PL tournament to be successful is to get a couple thousand fans hooked on making it an event every year, even if their team isn't any good. Then you're guaranteed a decent crowd for the Saturday quarterfinal and Sunday semi-final sessions. And then the Monday session (championship) it shouldn't matter as long as you get a really unlucky draw -- i.e. BU v. Colgate in Annapolis or American-Loyola in Boston. Given the generally apathetic fan bases of the current teams in the league, I think the home-court model continues to make sense. If the NY Crusader 2010 "PL on steroids" with W&M, Delaware, Fairfield and Northeastern ever comes to fruition, perhaps we can revisit. I listed Mohegan Sun, Worcester, Wilmington, Baltimore and Washington as potential options if that dream were ever to come true.
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Post by gks on Sept 27, 2023 6:58:47 GMT -5
Attendance would likely be in the hundreds for early round games. What makes it tough for the PL is because so many of our members are in pretty remote locations, the only destination sites that really make sense are on opposite ends of the league geography. And the only two programs with a big enough following historically to realistically travel are at polar ends of the footprint. The key to getting a neutral site PL tournament to be successful is to get a couple thousand fans hooked on making it an event every year, even if their team isn't any good. Then you're guaranteed a decent crowd for the Saturday quarterfinal and Sunday semi-final sessions. And then the Monday session (championship) it shouldn't matter as long as you get a really unlucky draw -- i.e. BU v. Colgate in Annapolis or American-Loyola in Boston. Given the generally apathetic fan bases of the current teams in the league, I think the home-court model continues to make sense. If the NY Crusader 2010 "PL on steroids" with W&M, Delaware, Fairfield and Northeastern ever comes to fruition, perhaps we can revisit. I listed Mohegan Sun, Worcester, Wilmington, Baltimore and Washington as potential options if that dream were ever to come true. The key to getting a couple thousand fans hooked is to put out a good and exciting basketball product. PL does neither.
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Post by trimster on Sept 27, 2023 9:05:24 GMT -5
BTW, does anyone think administrators at a school would say anything other than we are fully committed to League X at a conference meeting? Maybe Phreek can find the minutes of a PAC 12 meeting from 18 months ago.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 27, 2023 9:54:49 GMT -5
What makes it tough for the PL is because so many of our members are in pretty remote locations, the only destination sites that really make sense are on opposite ends of the league geography. And the only two programs with a big enough following historically to realistically travel are at polar ends of the footprint. The key to getting a neutral site PL tournament to be successful is to get a couple thousand fans hooked on making it an event every year, even if their team isn't any good. Then you're guaranteed a decent crowd for the Saturday quarterfinal and Sunday semi-final sessions. And then the Monday session (championship) it shouldn't matter as long as you get a really unlucky draw -- i.e. BU v. Colgate in Annapolis or American-Loyola in Boston. Given the generally apathetic fan bases of the current teams in the league, I think the home-court model continues to make sense. If the NY Crusader 2010 "PL on steroids" with W&M, Delaware, Fairfield and Northeastern ever comes to fruition, perhaps we can revisit. I listed Mohegan Sun, Worcester, Wilmington, Baltimore and Washington as potential options if that dream were ever to come true. The key to getting a couple thousand fans hooked is to put out a good and exciting basketball product. PL does neither. Totally agree. That's why my vision of an improved Patriot League down the road is centered more around bringing in schools with some semblance of basketball tradition as opposed to adding Richmond and Villanova as football-only affiliates. I'll take both, but IMO the football conference remains much more desirable than the basketball league. This is of course from the perspective of how well they fit Holy Cross.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 27, 2023 11:47:12 GMT -5
The key to getting a couple thousand fans hooked is to put out a good and exciting basketball product. PL does neither. Totally agree. That's why my vision of an improved Patriot League down the road is centered more around bringing in schools with some semblance of basketball tradition as opposed to adding Richmond and Villanova as football-only affiliates. I'll take both, but IMO the football conference remains much more desirable than the basketball league. This is of course from the perspective of how well they fit Holy Cross. I'd take UConn for hoops only 😆
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 27, 2023 11:58:13 GMT -5
Totally agree. That's why my vision of an improved Patriot League down the road is centered more around bringing in schools with some semblance of basketball tradition as opposed to adding Richmond and Villanova as football-only affiliates. I'll take both, but IMO the football conference remains much more desirable than the basketball league. This is of course from the perspective of how well they fit Holy Cross. I'd take UConn for hoops only 😆 Unless they could help us spear a Patriot League hockey conference. Then I'd take them in as a full member. I don't think the AI would be a problem.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 27, 2023 16:59:42 GMT -5
3 more days until poll locks. Get your vote in.
Pretty consistent from the get-go, about 2/3rds are for staying.
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