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Post by DFW HOYA on Sept 22, 2023 11:01:26 GMT -5
I remember William and Mary (and Davidson?) were in or supposed to be in the Colonial Football League but got lost in the shuffle somehow, perhaps leaving before any scheduled games could be played. Was the Duffner homecoming in the mud at Bill and Mary, billed as a clash of 1-AA Titans but actually an HC romp, originally scheduled as a Colonial League tilt? William & Mary withdrew from the Colonial over the lack of scholarships before the first season. Davidson played two seasons in the Colonial, went a combined 1-20, and retreated to Division III for three years before rejoining I-AA. The loss of Davidson led the league to add Fordham, much as the loss of Towson led to adding Georgetown. In that sense, there has never been an additive expansion in the league.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 22, 2023 11:05:47 GMT -5
So, a question for those who think the PL has always been academics first - how did Towson find its way into the league?
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 22, 2023 11:17:45 GMT -5
You never heard the expression “the exception that proves the rule?” 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 22, 2023 11:24:21 GMT -5
Digressing from a digression, I wasn't local when all this happened, maybe it was my Syracuse years or Columbus years where we know both schools are "academics first" universities (he said, sarcastically), but my recollection was the term used was not "academics first" more than "a presidents' league" meaning that athletics generically and Athletic Directors specifically, were not going to be calling the shots on how athletics would operate in the new league.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 22, 2023 11:52:59 GMT -5
Take this with the lightness that is intended and not really "political," but this PL poll is starting to look like a GOP presidential poll.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 22, 2023 12:01:26 GMT -5
"A president's league" is absolutely correct. No less than the great Fr. Brooks himself lamented the loss of presidential control to the AD's. He was a staunch advocate of presidential control & vociferously criticized presidents of big time universities who refused to take leadership responsibility inherent in their position and abandoned control of athletics to AD's & alums & others. Leadership by the schools' presidents is an underlying value which unites the wonderful schools in the PL. I, for one, am grateful for my limited contacts with Fr. Brooks and proud of HC's membership in the PL which the good Father helped to create. Realize this: Fr. Brooks led in establishing a league essentially based on HC's long standing academics first athletics policies. HC was in a no man's land for years prior to the creation of the Colonial/Patriot League. HC has found a home with other like-minded academics first colleges due to the far-sighted efforts of Father. And, HC continues to benefit from Father's inspired leadership to this very day, decades after he moved on.
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Post by dharry13 on Sept 22, 2023 12:08:02 GMT -5
I personally do not view Father Brooks in that same light.
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 22, 2023 12:11:21 GMT -5
Regardless of leagues, I just hope HC continues to push for recruiting local young fans (loved seeing the Sluka shirt!). I highly doubt established pro fans are ever going to change and suddenly start seriously following college football. Let's face it - the average Joe Six Pack that faithfully listens to WEEI and The Sports Hub and wears the Pats jerseys do not know Bob Chesney from Bob Keeshan.....and they also couldn't name the BC or UMass coaches either. Here's a (silly) idea: maybe the NFL could borrow a page from the old AFL and institute a territorial college draft. Then, the NFL teams fully fund their colleges with NIL $$$. Then HC can buy all the players they want and fill up Fitton for the showdown with Alabama. When I visited "the hub of the universe" recently for the BC game, I sampled the news programs in Boston for two days prior to the game. It was astounding to me that I never saw a mention of the upcoming Holy Cross - BC football game, before during or after the game. There was incessant droning on about the return of Tom Brady and the Patriot's game with Tampa Bay, including live reports from an empty stadium and breathless descriptions of how exciting it was going to be, but nothing about the resumption of the oldest college rivalry in New England. Nothing. The only mention of college football was repeated discussion of "Coach Prime" and the Colorado Buffaloes. Pathetic!
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Post by hc87 on Sept 22, 2023 12:51:45 GMT -5
The ascension of the Pats (and the NFL in general: fantasy football. now legalized gambling, Red Zone etc) has really marginalized college football coverage in the Boston market sadly. You rarely see/hear any reports on local TV news, the major newspapers, talk radio etc in the Boston media.
It's really too bad, as going to an HC game (or really any other local college save for maybe BC) is a MUCH bettah fan experience in nearly every way imo.
Hopefully more and more subway alums in Central Mass. will eschew going to a Pats game on the weekend for .a trip to Fitton.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2023 13:25:01 GMT -5
Take this with the lightness that is intended and not really "political," but this PL poll is starting to look like a GOP presidential poll. Support for the PL is a mile wide and an inch deep.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2023 13:30:42 GMT -5
I remember William and Mary (and Davidson?) were in or supposed to be in the Colonial Football League but got lost in the shuffle somehow, perhaps leaving before any scheduled games could be played. Was the Duffner homecoming in the mud at Bill and Mary, billed as a clash of 1-AA Titans but actually an HC romp, originally scheduled as a Colonial League tilt? William & Mary withdrew from the Colonial over the lack of scholarships before the first season. Davidson played two seasons in the Colonial, went a combined 1-20, and retreated to Division III for three years before rejoining I-AA. The loss of Davidson led the league to add Fordham, much as the loss of Towson led to adding Georgetown. In that sense, there has never been an additive expansion in the league. Are there any die hard Hoya fans reciting Robert Frost's "The Road Not Taken" and lamenting the decision to join the PL? What were GU's other options when they decided to take the plunge?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 22, 2023 13:36:01 GMT -5
William & Mary withdrew from the Colonial over the lack of scholarships before the first season. Davidson played two seasons in the Colonial, went a combined 1-20, and retreated to Division III for three years before rejoining I-AA. The loss of Davidson led the league to add Fordham, much as the loss of Towson led to adding Georgetown. In that sense, there has never been an additive expansion in the league. Are there any die hard Hoya fans reciting Robert Frost's "The Road Not Taken" and lamenting the decision to join the PL? What were GU's other options when they decided to take the plunge? They could've remained in the MAAC for another 6 or 7 years until that league folded. Or they probably could have joined the NEC. I don't think the Pioneer League was around yet.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2023 13:36:42 GMT -5
The ascension of the Pats (and the NFL in general: fantasy football. now legalized gambling, Red Zone etc) has really marginalized college football coverage in the Boston market sadly. You rarely see/hear any reports on local TV news, the major newspapers, talk radio etc in the Boston media. It's really too bad, as going to an HC game (or really any other local college save for maybe BC) is a MUCH bettah fan experience in nearly every way imo. Hopefully more and more subway alums in Central Mass. will eschew going to a Pats game on the weekend for .a trip to Fitton. The pre-Parcells and then Kraft Pats were mostly a joke. Owner Billy Sullivan's son (Chuck?), a lawyer, got out-finagled by pop star Michael Jackson and had to spend so much in setting up an MJ concert at Sullivan Stadium to comply with the contract he signed he basically lost the family's NFL fortune right there.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2023 13:39:04 GMT -5
Are there any die hard Hoya fans reciting Robert Frost's "The Road Not Taken" and lamenting the decision to join the PL? What were GU's other options when they decided to take the plunge? They could've remained in the MAAC for another 6 or 7 years until that league folded. Or they probably could have joined the NEC. I don't think the Pioneer League was around yet. Georgetown in the NEC (or PL probably) with forty scholarships would be a perrenial contender for post season play. But I guess no means no when it comes to schollies.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 224
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Post by hc69 on Sept 22, 2023 14:42:23 GMT -5
Take this with the lightness that is intended and not really "political," but this PL poll is starting to look like a GOP presidential poll. Support for the PL is a mile wide and an inch deep. While support for joining the CAA is an inch wide and a mile deep. There aren't all that many true believers but true believers tend to be fanatical in their beliefs. That's why 900 people drank the Kool Aid in Guyana. As cults go there weren't all that many of them but they sure were fanatics.
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Post by lehighowl on Sept 22, 2023 15:04:58 GMT -5
I stumbled upon this as I was putting together a lit review for my doctoral work... Has anyone seen this? Been posted anywhere else? Declining the Big East: A Case Study of the College of the Holy Cross. (2019). journals.ku.edu/jams/article/view/7583/11186
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Post by lehighowl on Sept 22, 2023 15:16:32 GMT -5
So, a question for those who think the PL has always been academics first - how did Towson find its way into the league? Towson was a conference mate with Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette in the East Coast Conference. Lehigh beat Towson in the 1988 ECC Tournament Final then played #1 Temple in the first round of the Dance in Hartford. Point being, there was a working relationship with "The PA Schools" already established which made Towson a viable candidate to give the PL another member when they FINALLY accepted the auto-bid to the 1-AA Playoffs. I am (have long been) in favor of the PL adding one or two well respected public institutions since Towson's departure. The rumors of the UNH overtures 5-10 years ago seem to be grounded in some fact.....
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 22, 2023 15:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 22, 2023 15:34:06 GMT -5
The ascension of the Pats (and the NFL in general: fantasy football. now legalized gambling, Red Zone etc) has really marginalized college football coverage in the Boston market sadly. You rarely see/hear any reports on local TV news, the major newspapers, talk radio etc in the Boston media. It's really too bad, as going to an HC game (or really any other local college save for maybe BC) is a MUCH bettah fan experience in nearly every way imo. Hopefully more and more subway alums in Central Mass. will eschew going to a Pats game on the weekend for .a trip to Fitton. Once a week (I think) Worcester radio station WCRN has a morning 1 hour segment on the WooSox, usually with the host, Hank Stoltz, and Dr. Charles Steinberg of the WooSox. Caught a bit of the program yesterday, and the HC-Harvard game was brought up. They mostly discussed EBW, since there was a tie in to Larry Lucchino (I guess he got his baseball with the Orioles through EBW). Not much else, although Steinberg did make one rather irksome comment - he indicated he had heard of some comments from HC fans (maybe he lurks here?) about how they would rather have the game at Fitton, to bring in a bigger crowd. He giggled a little with Hank, saying something to the affect of "Holy Cross doesn't draw 10K a game; plenty of room at Polar Park." Hopefully in another couple of weeks they are talking about the performances of Sluka, Coker, Dobbs and company!
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 22, 2023 15:46:37 GMT -5
Thanks, Dave. Clearly they never looked at HC attendance this year. I can't mock those who are intentionally dumb, but want to sound intelligent (figuring most listeners won't know anyway),
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Post by lehighowl on Sept 22, 2023 16:00:58 GMT -5
Good deal! There should be one done for every Patriot League school; especially Colgate and Lehigh imo. People forget Lehigh was one of the best D2/1-AA teams in the country before the school began to de-emphasize the program in the mid-1980s. Colgate went from ABC games to playing Davidson in front of 3k people.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Sept 22, 2023 16:16:13 GMT -5
Regardless of leagues, I just hope HC continues to push for recruiting local young fans (loved seeing the Sluka shirt!). I highly doubt established pro fans are ever going to change and suddenly start seriously following college football. Let's face it - the average Joe Six Pack that faithfully listens to WEEI and The Sports Hub and wears the Pats jerseys do not know Bob Chesney from Bob Keeshan.....and they also couldn't name the BC or UMass coaches either. Here's a (silly) idea: maybe the NFL could borrow a page from the old AFL and institute a territorial college draft. Then, the NFL teams fully fund their colleges with NIL $$$. Then HC can buy all the players they want and fill up Fitton for the showdown with Alabama. When I visited "the hub of the universe" recently for the BC game, I sampled the news programs in Boston for two days prior to the game. It was astounding to me that I never saw a mention of the upcoming Holy Cross - BC football game, before during or after the game. There was incessant droning on about the return of Tom Brady and the Patriot's game with Tampa Bay, including live reports from an empty stadium and breathless descriptions of how exciting it was going to be, but nothing about the resumption of the oldest college rivalry in New England. Nothing. The only mention of college football was repeated discussion of "Coach Prime" and the Colorado Buffaloes. Pathetic! WBZ (Channel 804 on Comcast) had coverage including highlights the day after with "Roachy". Also had day after coverage of Merrimack and Yale games
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Post by hcpride on Sept 22, 2023 16:17:31 GMT -5
We’ve ditched the PL football swamp and constructed a high level CAA team. Without formally leaving the PL. Sort of a stealth departure led by a coach every top CAA team would love to have. And an academic prez who is the kind of guy kids (and their parents) really like.
Sooo, in a football quality sense, we’ve already left.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 22, 2023 17:06:47 GMT -5
We’ve ditched the PL football swamp and constructed a high level CAA team. Without formally leaving the PL. Sort of a stealth departure led by a coach every top CAA team would love to have. And an academic prez who is the kind of guy kids (and their parents) really like. Sooo, in a football quality sense, we’ve already left. Except we still need to play Georgetown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh every year.
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Post by sittingbull on Sept 22, 2023 17:23:28 GMT -5
I remember William and Mary (and Davidson?) were in or supposed to be in the Colonial Football League but got lost in the shuffle somehow, perhaps leaving before any scheduled games could be played. Was the Duffner homecoming in the mud at Bill and Mary, billed as a clash of 1-AA Titans but actually an HC romp, originally scheduled as a Colonial League tilt? William & Mary withdrew from the Colonial over the lack of scholarships before the first season. Davidson played two seasons in the Colonial, went a combined 1-20, and retreated to Division III for three years before rejoining I-AA. The loss of Davidson led the league to add Fordham, much as the loss of Towson led to adding Georgetown. In that sense, there has never been an additive expansion in the league. That was only one piece of the problem. The refusal to participate in post season and the bow down to the Ivy, which was manipulating the OOC requirements, became an issue. W&M wanted to make sure they could continue playing Richmond, VMI, JMU, UVA, etc. There was also discussion of a post season bowl game between the winners of the Ivy and Colonial. Never happened. By the late 80s, the southern half of the Yankee/A10 became the perfect home - 6 teams: Delaware, Villanova, Richmond, W&M, JMU and they threw Northeastern in as the 6th. The North basically had all the New England land grants plus Hofstra.
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