|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2023 17:25:33 GMT -5
We’ve ditched the PL football swamp and constructed a high level CAA team. Without formally leaving the PL. Sort of a stealth departure led by a coach every top CAA team would love to have. And an academic prez who is the kind of guy kids (and their parents) really like. Sooo, in a football quality sense, we’ve already left. Except we still need to play Georgetown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh every year. Harvard, Fordham and Army will be progressively stronger opponents to keep us sharp for the playoffs.
|
|
|
Post by midwestsader05 on Sept 22, 2023 17:34:38 GMT -5
Except we still need to play Georgetown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh every year. Harvard, Fordham and Army will be progressively stronger opponents to keep us sharp for the playoffs. This game vs Monmouth is a big measuring stick game for Lafayette.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Sept 22, 2023 18:14:51 GMT -5
We’ve ditched the PL football swamp and constructed a high level CAA team. Without formally leaving the PL. Sort of a stealth departure led by a coach every top CAA team would love to have. And an academic prez who is the kind of guy kids (and their parents) really like. Sooo, in a football quality sense, we’ve already left. Except we still need to play Georgetown, Colgate, Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh every year. True. Beat them decisively and move on to the playoffs. Price we (and they) have to pay for our PL football membership. Every good team beats a few patsies. We'll just have a bit more than most.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 22, 2023 18:26:32 GMT -5
So, a question for those who think the PL has always been academics first - how did Towson find its way into the league? Towson was a conference mate with Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette in the East Coast Conference. Lehigh beat Towson in the 1988 ECC Tournament Final then played #1 Temple in the first round of the Dance in Hartford. Point being, there was a working relationship with "The PA Schools" already established which made Towson a viable candidate to give the PL another member when they FINALLY accepted the auto-bid to the 1-AA Playoffs. I am (have long been) in favor of the PL adding one or two well respected public institutions since Towson's departure. The rumors of the UNH overtures 5-10 years ago seem to be grounded in some fact.....The UNH rumors were indeed rooted in fact. It was around 2010 or 2011 to be precise. At the time, URI had recently announced they were planning on leaving CAA Football for the NEC due to not having been competitive for almost 2 decades. UMass had just announced they were moving up to the FBS. They were headed to the MAC. As a result, UNH and Maine temporarily looked to be stuck on a geographic island in the conference's football landscape. The next closest opponents at the time would have been Villanova and Delaware. Therefore, I believe some preliminary discussions did indeed take place regarding Maine and New Hampshire and PL Football. However, very quickly the CAA turned around and added Albany and Stony Brook as football affiliates and URI changed its mind on the NEC downgrade. These developments rapidly eliminated the pending geography issue.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Sept 24, 2023 13:48:38 GMT -5
SPORTS BISON MEDIA ZONE MEN'S SPORTS McFeely: Current FCS members, but not NDSU, included in cutting edge proposal for FBS alliance Boise State associate athletic director comes up with in-depth written proposal 'to stabilize major college athletics in the western U.S.'
MW territory map - Football (1).png A map of the Mountain West Conference's football programs. MWC graphic Mike McFeely By Mike McFeely September 22, 2023 at 5:15 PM Share Opinion FARGO — Michael Walsh is either a mad scientist, or just mad. My guess is the former, that he's just enough ahead of his time that college sports administrators will look back in 20 years and say, "Walsh was right. We should've listened to him."
The problem is that today's administrators will likely look at him and say, "You're nuts."
Walsh is an associate athletic director at Boise State, a member of the Football Bowl Subdivision's Mountain West Conference. Boise State is a school, like many in similar positions, that is looking at what's happening at the highest levels of college sports and wondering how it can remain stable and relevant in the big picture.
When the Big Ten will soon be 18 schools that stretch from New Jersey to Los Angeles and the Southeastern Conference in 2024 will be 16 teams and the Big 12 will actually be the Big 16 and ... well, you get the idea. Most importantly, those big-boy leagues will be bathing in hundreds of millions of television dollars every year. If you're Boise State and the Mountain West, you need to start thinking a little differently to survive on the changed landscape.
And so Walsh thought differently, and put it in writing.
As first reported by Amanda Christovich of Front Office Sports, Walsh came up with a plan "to stabilize major college athletics in the Western U.S." by constructing a 24-school league comprised of three eight-team conferences that would rely on European soccer-style promotion and relegation. That is, teams could move up and down in the conferences based on their success.
It's believed to be the first written proposal using promotion and relegation in college sports.
The top tier of the model would the best conference consisting of the top teams, the second tier would be the middle conference and the third tier the lowest conference.
Christovich reported that potential members could be remaining Pac-12 schools, Mountain West members, American Athletic Conference members in the Central Time Zone and some from Conference USA and the United Athletic Conference (formerly the Western Athletic Conference and Atlantic Sun Conference).
The idea intrigued me because it seemed like an opportunity for North Dakota State, currently a member of the Football Championship Subdivision but with eyes for at least exploring FBS, to move up if the school was aggressive in marketing itself to the appropriate powers and if the chips fell properly.
Walsh's proposal mentions several Western Athletic Conference schools, all currently FCS members, as potential members. So why couldn't NDSU and rival South Dakota State get a piece of the action?
I wrote a column based off Christovich's article after communicating with her earlier this week. But Christovich didn't include Walsh's specific proposal and I was left wondering what exactly it said. I obtained a copy from Walsh and gave it a read. He asked that I not share the entire document online.
Conclusion: Juicy.
In a world where mid-major athletic directors and presidents are always reacting to what others are doing and chasing what they think they need, Walsh's proposal gets out front. It dictates the future for the mid-majors involved in a creative and forward-thinking way.
The basic premise is that the remaining two Pac-12 schools, Washington State and Oregon State, and the 12 Mountain West schools be joined by 10 others to form a 24-team, three-tiered league. Football conference affiliation would be fluid based on annual promotion and relegation. All non-football sports would have fixed memberships in their conferences.
Among the proposal's objectives:
Stabilize major college athletics in the western U.S. Establish a niche in preparation for additional consolidation within the industry. Create compelling and unique football inventory for a media partner. Maintain regionalism while staying nationally relevant. "What will the landscape look like in 3, 6 and 12 years?" Walsh asks. "In 2035, what decisions will your institution and constituents with you made in 2023?
"If you're reading this, you already don't have a seat at that table. Do you want to be at the kids' table under the same roof or eating at a different establishment?"
Walsh distributed the document to Mountain West officials including commissioner Gloria Nevarez and athletic directors. ADs from other conferences also received it.
The document suggests NBC Universal, Apple TV and Amazon as potential media partners and lays out revenue distribution models that include football tier bonuses (more for being in Tier 1) and performance bonuses.
Walsh also lays out football schedule templates that include Week 1 match-ups between the previous year's first- and second-place teams for maximum excitement, crossover games between tiers and a slate of late-season "bracket buster" games manufactured for impact and media attention.
"I would envision the games being set two weeks in advance as a made-for-TV event," Walsh said. "You could do an NBA Lottery-style selection. You could do the most compelling games. You could do seeding like the NCAA Tournament. You could do it based on storylines."
One possible bracket-buster matchup offered by Walsh: Washington State at Wyoming, reuniting Cougars head coach and former Wyoming assistant Jake Dickert with Cowboys head coach Craig Bohl while sending a notable name school to Laramie.
It's compelling, it's revolutionary, it's ahead of its time.
Which might mean it has no chance. College administrators are not known for being visionaries, which is a main reason college athletics are where they are. Particularly the Pac-12.
The Pac-12 remnants and Mountain West are much more likely to do a simple merger than anything cutting edge.
As for how any of this could relate to NDSU, it's likely minimally or less. Walsh's proposal mentions current FCS schools like Abilene Christian, Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, Tarleton State, Stephen F. Austin, Southern Utah, Utah Tech and Texas-Rio Grande Valley as potential members because the WAC/Atlantic Sun alignment was done with the intention of becoming FBS in the future.
To this point, NDSU has been mostly passive in whatever interest it has in moving to FBS. I've been told the people in the Mountain West who need to know of the Bison's interest have been told. Perhaps it's time to get more aggressive if the school is serious about pursuing a move up. If you want to be part of the action, you have to let people know. Share Opinion Tags Mike McFeely By Mike McFeely Mike McFeely is a columnist for The Forum of Fargo-Moorhead. He began working for The Forum in the 1980s while he was a student studying journalism at Minnesota State University Moorhead. He's been with The Forum full time since 1990, minus a six-year hiatus when he hosted a local radio talk-show.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2023 15:40:28 GMT -5
I'm only half through reading this "War and Peace" length missive but I have to say I love the line "Conclusion: Juicy".
Now I have read a little more and have my own conclusion that ESPN+ not being mentioned as a potential media partner hints that ESPN+, despite having both commercials and subscription revenue, doesn't pay very well. If the PL had received a good payout in their recent ESPN+ contract renewal, the league and member school PR departments would be blasting the details in all directions.
Final conclusion: How about proposals for a similar Rube Goldberg contraption on the East Coast. "Minutemen" would describe how fast UMass would be relegated if this arrangement was in place now. In practice, I think the current FCS arrangement suits HC well, but it's good to think about alternatives.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2023 16:32:19 GMT -5
Yellow caution flag about moving up to the CAA. Yesterday undefeated in FCS Lafayette welcomed a CAA team within driving distance, Monmouth to Fisher Stadium and drew 1497. I am sure the weather forecast was poor but if they count their pre-sales and season tickets like apparently HC did to record an official attendance of 12,578 yesterday at Fitton, neither the PL or CAA is currently in the entertainment business.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Sept 24, 2023 16:44:11 GMT -5
For those at the HCAA/Volunteer meeting with Q&A with Vince and Sean (Kit in the audience), kind of on behalf of Crossporters, I asked Vince about the HC commitment to and the future of the PL in light of all the conference changes.
Others who were there might want to chime in but Vince said the league presidents had just had a call and discussed that very topic and they are all strongly committed to the league and agreed with my description of it as a “presidents’ league.” While Kit was there, I was unable to gauge his reaction to my question or Vince’s response as my attention was on/with Vince.
We ain’t going anywhere and sounds like neither are any other PL schools.
Again, if someone has a different take, chime in now.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2023 17:01:46 GMT -5
CAA 2023 w/l record so far: 26-33. PL w/l record so far: 13-14. With three teams bunched at 3-1, the PL might pull off two bids two years in a row if the top three teams only lose to each other going forward.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Sept 24, 2023 17:03:46 GMT -5
So we're not going to hear the PL presidents sing the Pop hit "Time To Say Goodbye." Good!
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Sept 24, 2023 17:19:52 GMT -5
For those at the HCAA/Volunteer meeting with Q&A with Vince and Sean (Kit in the audience), kind of on behalf of Crossporters, I asked Vince about the HC commitment to and the future of the PL in light of all the conference changes. Others who were there might want to chime in but Vince said the league presidents had just had a call and discussed that very topic and they are all strongly committed to the league and agreed with my description of it as a “presidents’ league.” While Kit was there, I was unable to gauge his reaction to my question or Vince’s response as my attention was on/with Vince. We ain’t going anywhere and sounds like neither are any other PL schools. Again, if someone has a different take, chime in now. No argument. If D-1 FB breaks into three subdivisions as some think is possible it sounds like the PL would choose one and stay intact together in that subdivision. It sounds like the other Presidents aren't overly concerned about Georgetown's non-scholarship status or overly impressed with HC's recent success. No mention of Fordham issuing an ultimatum about non-medical red shirts or anything like that. Hopefully Ram Nation is tickled pink about getting to the national post season out of the PL and is committed to staying.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Sept 24, 2023 18:20:28 GMT -5
Can the league just follow the FCS rules set by the NCAA?
That would make everyone a little happier.
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Sept 24, 2023 18:28:47 GMT -5
For those at the HCAA/Volunteer meeting with Q&A with Vince and Sean (Kit in the audience), kind of on behalf of Crossporters, I asked Vince about the HC commitment to and the future of the PL in light of all the conference changes. Others who were there might want to chime in but Vince said the league presidents had just had a call and discussed that very topic and they are all strongly committed to the league and agreed with my description of it as a “presidents’ league.” While Kit was there, I was unable to gauge his reaction to my question or Vince’s response as my attention was on/with Vince. We ain’t going anywhere and sounds like neither are any other PL schools. Again, if someone has a different take, chime in now. Remember the phrase some speak with forked tongue Not saying it will happen but the Fordham Rams just might have other thoughts
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Sept 24, 2023 18:30:37 GMT -5
For those at the HCAA/Volunteer meeting with Q&A with Vince and Sean (Kit in the audience), kind of on behalf of Crossporters, I asked Vince about the HC commitment to and the future of the PL in light of all the conference changes. Others who were there might want to chime in but Vince said the league presidents had just had a call and discussed that very topic and they are all strongly committed to the league and agreed with my description of it as a “presidents’ league.” While Kit was there, I was unable to gauge his reaction to my question or Vince’s response as my attention was on/with Vince. We ain’t going anywhere and sounds like neither are any other PL schools. Again, if someone has a different take, chime in now. Interesting that they just had a call and discussed that very topic. Hmmmmmm
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on Sept 24, 2023 18:31:14 GMT -5
And if the PL Leaders don't have a plan B we should leave now
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2023 18:37:47 GMT -5
Under the old adage that "the grass is always geener on the other side of the fence" IMHO we need to be careful to look befire we leap. Just because a league is different does not mean it will be better for HC. Right now debates about the move that is not happening seem a waste of time and energy. I would be pleased to hear of meetings amonf PL member ADs and coaches to get a list of priorities that would make the PL stronger. Then let's look at adding another football PL member that fits of member profile.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Sept 24, 2023 18:42:33 GMT -5
Under the old adage that "the grass is always geener on the other side of the fence" IMHO we need to be careful to look befire we leap. Just because a league is different does not mean it will be better for HC. Right now debates about the move that is not happening seem a waste of time and energy. I would be pleased to hear of meetings amonf PL member ADs and coaches to get a list of priorities that would make the PL stronger. Then let;s look atadding another football PL membercthat fits of member profile. And who will that be? Schools that show interest are not academically compatible or whatever and the others than many here dream about would face alumni revolts if they dropped down to the PL in its current state. No one is coming.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2023 18:55:51 GMT -5
Since you ask, how about Merrimack in another year or two? Remember American was not at the academic level of other mmbers when they joined, but their academic oerformance has been improving ever since AU joined the PL.
|
|
|
Post by gks on Sept 24, 2023 18:58:49 GMT -5
Since you ask, how about Merrimack in another year or two? Remember American was not at the academic level of other mmbers when they joined, but their academic oerformance has been improving ever since AU joined the PL. I'd take Merrimack into the PL in a second. Would have taken Bryant too.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 24, 2023 19:05:15 GMT -5
Under the old adage that "the grass is always geener on the other side of the fence" IMHO we need to be careful to look befire we leap. Just because a league is different does not mean it will be better for HC. Right now debates about the move that is not happening seem a waste of time and energy. I would be pleased to hear of meetings amonf PL member ADs and coaches to get a list of priorities that would make the PL stronger. Then let;s look atadding another football PL membercthat fits of member profile. And who will that be? Schools that show interest are not academically compatible or whatever and the others than many here dream about would face alumni revolts if they dropped down to the PL in its current state. No one is coming. Interesting that you see joining the PL as "dropping down." If the league started adressing a few of the shortcomings, it might not be that at all - except, of course, in the eyes of some critics. One of the first thimgs that needs to be addressed is to improve HC olympic sports teams Why join the CAA if sll it means is teams will travel farther at greater dexpense to lose to other teams?
|
|
|
Post by gks on Sept 24, 2023 19:08:39 GMT -5
And who will that be? Schools that show interest are not academically compatible or whatever and the others than many here dream about would face alumni revolts if they dropped down to the PL in its current state. No one is coming. Interesting that you see joining the PL as "dropping down." If the league started adressing a few of the shortcomings, it might not be gthat at all - except, of course, in the eyes of some other critics. One of the first thimgs that needs to be adressed is to improve our olympic sports teams See my earlier posts.... Take off the ridiculous self-imposed restrictions and play by FCS rules and limits and the league would improve overnight.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 24, 2023 19:27:50 GMT -5
For those at the HCAA/Volunteer meeting with Q&A with Vince and Sean (Kit in the audience), kind of on behalf of Crossporters, I asked Vince about the HC commitment to and the future of the PL in light of all the conference changes. Others who were there might want to chime in but Vince said the league presidents had just had a call and discussed that very topic and they are all strongly committed to the league and agreed with my description of it as a “presidents’ league.” While Kit was there, I was unable to gauge his reaction to my question or Vince’s response as my attention was on/with Vince. We ain’t going anywhere and sounds like neither are any other PL schools. Again, if someone has a different take, chime in now. What they are saying might be totally factual, but Vince, Kit, or anyone else are not going to make any statements publicly that light insinuate Holy Cross isn’t committed to the Patriot League.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on Sept 24, 2023 19:29:55 GMT -5
Agreed on the PL can you just even the playing field a little bit.
Cmon HC build off the success you are having nobody wants a repeat of the tough years starting in 1993.
35th anniversary of the HC Princeton game?
|
|
hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 224
|
Post by hc69 on Sept 24, 2023 19:30:15 GMT -5
Under FCS (and NCAA) rules a FCS school can admit any athlete who meets NCAA eligibility requirements. In other words, open admissions for athletes regardless of any other academic qualifications. If he's a good football player he can be dumb as a rock and still get into HC. I assume that's one of the FCS "rules" some of you are referring to. Thanks but no thanks.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on Sept 24, 2023 19:32:20 GMT -5
Under FCS (and NCAA) rules a FCS school can admit any athlete who meets NCAA eligibility requirements. In other words, open admissions for athletes regardless of school or conference academic admissions requirements. If he's a good football player he can be dumb as a rock and still get into HC. I assume that's one of the FCS "rules" some of you are referring to. Thanks but no thanks. ^^^ Do you honestly think you can fail classes and play sports at HC?
|
|