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Post by hchoops on Dec 30, 2016 23:08:09 GMT -5
I believe that we will see many zones the rest of the way. Hoops -- Do you think we should speed up the pace of the game if teams take this strategy against us? While our half court zone produces turnovers, it does not produce turnovers that turn into easy baskets at the other end. If we are going to slow the game to a snails pace on defense while allowing opposing teams to shoot an extremely high % inside the 3-point line, not emphasize rebounding, and then not be able to get into the PO because teams are just packing in a zone and daring us to shoot 3's, I don't see how we're going to be consistently successful. Speeding up the tempo and extending our defense will give us a chance to get more easy baskets, and while a press always creates a risk of allowing a couple easy baskets for the opponent, our halfcourt defense already allows a ton of those, so it's not like we'll really be at a disadvantage there. No. a team cannot play 2 tempos. we do not have the personnel to run and CBC has never run. if we got turnovers which would lead to fast breaks, we would most likely take them. Most of the turnovers we create do not lead to fast breaks.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 30, 2016 23:13:11 GMT -5
Met 92 at the game and first time I sat near his sons. Have to say that other than there frequent shuttles back and forth to the concession stand, their cheering was impressive. Not sure if it was because I was in the middle of it but the "DEE-FENCE" and "GO CROSS GO" cheers by "Sons of '92" seemed loud and encouraging for the Crusaders. Nice contingent of Purple-clad folks at the game. Unfortunately, the game played out somewhat as I expected (and predicted the HC loss). We just don't have the consistency of play needed to win these tight games. We were hitting everything from outside and matching BU 3s for 3s except MA stone cold in much of the first half. To those who don't watch us play often, one might have thought we were going to blow them out. A 7 player rotation is going to be a killer toward the end of a close game when legs are tired causing shots to be just a little short and defenders getting into position just a wee bit late allowing an uncontested shot or making a foul or getting beat going after a loose ball. And, yes, I still hate the 2 small guards in at the same time. I also wish we were deeper, but that is not the reason we lost. MA was not gassed when he could not make a shot in the first half. the game was slow paced, not physical and we were not in foul trouble. Why did you remind us that you predicted the loss.?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2016 23:14:49 GMT -5
Hoops -- Do you think we should speed up the pace of the game if teams take this strategy against us? While our half court zone produces turnovers, it does not produce turnovers that turn into easy baskets at the other end. If we are going to slow the game to a snails pace on defense while allowing opposing teams to shoot an extremely high % inside the 3-point line, not emphasize rebounding, and then not be able to get into the PO because teams are just packing in a zone and daring us to shoot 3's, I don't see how we're going to be consistently successful. Speeding up the tempo and extending our defense will give us a chance to get more easy baskets, and while a press always creates a risk of allowing a couple easy baskets for the opponent, our halfcourt defense already allows a ton of those, so it's not like we'll really be at a disadvantage there. No. a team cannot play 2 tempos. we do not have the personnel to run and CBC has never run. if we got turnovers which would lead to fast breaks, we would most likely take them. Most of the turnovers we create do not lead to fast breaks. [/u][/quote] The last line gets right to my point. We play a style that limits the number of possession in a game, and increases the importance of efficiency. While we create an advantage by causing a high number of turnovers, that advantage is negated by the following: 1) not turning the turnovers into easy baskets 2) allowing extra possessions by losing the offensive rebound battle, often by a very wide margin 3) allowing teams to shoot an extremely high percentage on 2 FG's If teams are going to pack in a zone and dare us to shoot from the outside, where we are not strong whatsoever, and we shoot anywhere close to the number of 3's that we shot tonight, that creates yet another factor that damages our efficiency.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 30, 2016 23:19:18 GMT -5
Most of the turnovers we create are near our hoop since that is where our D is. They are not pressing turnovers which are the kind that lead to breaks. You misunderstood my sentence that you put in bold.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 30, 2016 23:20:12 GMT -5
Caro....you're ovahanalyzing brother....we simply aren't that good.
It's going to take some serious recruiting by Carmody and co. to right this ship....I'm skeptical it can be done in this era at HC for a host of reasons. We shall see.
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Post by dadominate on Dec 30, 2016 23:24:16 GMT -5
..... yet another manifestation of your inability to accurately evaluate a basketball game and what can be no better described as a critical obsession with the coaching staff. You are completely delusional. yeah, okay... well, at least you spared us the waste of internet space that constitutes your equally clueless, equally biased analysis. if you're going to continue to be an idiot with a personal vendetta against adnp/carmody, better to be a terse idiot with a personal vendetta against adnp/carmody, as you were in this particular instance.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2016 23:25:24 GMT -5
Most of the turnovers we create are near our hoop since that is where our D is. They are not pressing turnovers which are the kind that lead to breaks. You misunderstood my sentence that you put in bold. I completely understood your sentence and agree with the point above. My idea was for a pressing defense that WOULD create turnovers that lead to baskets at the other end. Because if we're just gonna hold the ball for 15-25 seconds before chucking 3's, not rebound, and allow teams to shoot over 50% on 2's, we're going to have a lot of trouble beating good teams.
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Post by hchoops on Dec 30, 2016 23:28:00 GMT -5
Even if that was CBC's style, which it is not, we have neither the personnel nor the depth to press.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2016 23:37:21 GMT -5
Game, Set, Match
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Post by hc87 on Dec 30, 2016 23:38:07 GMT -5
It's amazing, but we are still basically rudderless since RW left almost a decade ago now. IMO we are still feeling the repercussions from this....we have a team now that is essentially incapable of playing the style of basketball the current coach would like to play. Sad to say, but I think we are looking at a 2-3 year rebuilding regime.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 30, 2016 23:38:17 GMT -5
Well, I just started reading the threads. Watched the game in person. Seems as simple as 7 men aren't going to beat 9 or 10 (and Floyd only played 7 minutes). Shooting went to hell in a handbasket as the game wore on.
Part of that is beyond CBC's control (no junior class), but only that part. Other 3 or 4 scholarship players not good enough to contribute.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2016 23:42:44 GMT -5
What's the consolation prize for the Turnpike Trophy? A weekend at your place
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Post by hc87 on Dec 30, 2016 23:45:07 GMT -5
What's the consolation prize for the Turnpike Trophy? A weekend at your place Would love the company.....Harpoon on ice...we could break down Mansfield High film....
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Post by timholycross on Dec 30, 2016 23:48:17 GMT -5
Too bad you(or I) didn't get to scout Mansfield in person this week, they played 2 games in Key West.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 30, 2016 23:48:46 GMT -5
We had our third worst shooting game of the season. We would have won with even a mediocre shooting night; alas we had a rotten one. The defense was good but we didn't make the shots. We all get frustrated by the lopsided rebounding stats but that is inevitable with the strategy in place. We did not make the shots
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 30, 2016 23:53:21 GMT -5
Even if that was CBC's style, which it is not, we have neither the personnel nor the depth to press. So if teams pack in a zone against us, we just chuck a bunch of 3's, cross our fingers, and hope a bunch go in?
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Post by timholycross on Dec 31, 2016 0:12:19 GMT -5
Even if that was CBC's style, which it is not, we have neither the personnel nor the depth to press. So if teams pack in a zone against us, we just chuck a bunch of 3's, cross our fingers, and hope a bunch go in? What does offensive strategy have to do with whether HC presses or not?
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2016 0:13:02 GMT -5
Even if that was CBC's style, which it is not, we have neither the personnel nor the depth to press. So if teams pack in a zone against us, we just chuck a bunch of 3's, cross our fingers, and hope a bunch go in? Pretty much.....yes. Again, this is a squad that Carmody inherited....not suited to his system. Basically we're screwed for a few years.
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Post by cfrivals on Dec 31, 2016 0:14:45 GMT -5
I love when I will keep seeing posts about last year what happened at end of the season. It was a crazy five game run, but we were still a 20 loss team and we got crushed as a 16 seed. I think that five game run took our eyes off the consistent problems facing this program. RECRUITING!!!!!! Outside of 2 or three players, the last Seven years have been down. The last 3 years 2 top recruits has left the team! We don't shoot well, don't rebound, have major contributors under 5'10" and no bench. I have to say this program still not In great shape by any means and next year is relying on major contributions from all five freshmen or the season could be 20 plus loses! That is not a promising future given our consistent misses at this level.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2016 0:30:35 GMT -5
The run in the PLT last year masked a lot of problems in both the basketball program and the athletic department as a whole imo....sadly, I don't see any easy solutions here.....we're boxed into a Patriot League mindset in general (i.e. have a lot of D1 sports to get kids to apply/enroll etc)....I don't see much basketball or football success as long as that is the thinking/philosophy on Mt St James.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 31, 2016 0:34:20 GMT -5
So if teams pack in a zone against us, we just chuck a bunch of 3's, cross our fingers, and hope a bunch go in? What does offensive strategy have to do with whether HC presses or not? Pressing would result in (1) turnovers that lead to easy baskets and (2) increasing the tempo of the game so teams cannot just play a packed in zone against us. Carmody's style is based on the PO, which is useless against a zone. Without the PO, we become a very weak team.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 31, 2016 0:35:03 GMT -5
Good to talk to sader1970 and Sader81 at the game as well as NAD, HCFC45 and many others. The boys had fun but agreed on the way home that they need to find ways to do more to bring home a W. Big debate is whether they should make more signs or save that for the PL tourney. I hope they're not putting too much pressure on themselves.
As for the game, tough night all around. We made seven 2-point field goals the entire game. SEVEN. I felt like we could have been more aggressive earlier in the shot clock. It seemed like we were passing up a lot of open looks in the seams in the zone just below the elbows and at the free throw line. It seems like those guys need to catch and face the basket rather than just catching it and kicking it back out to the 3-point line. When we did shoot the twos, we missed a lot (7-24). All that said, we were down three on the road to one of the best teams in the league with under a minute to play. If we shoot even half-decently in the second half, we win that game. Having Karl and RChamp with 4 fouls each down the stretch definitely didn't help. We did a nice job containing Hankerson after the first few minutes. He had 9 quick points in the first few minutes and I think finished with 10. As usual, the refs were awful and inconsistent. They were awful both ways but it would be nice if we could get good refs once in a while. Lastly, as others have mentioned, I would like to see us make a little more of an effort to get offensive rebounds. I understand the philosophy of making sure we get back to stop runouts but we're in the PL so it's not like we're playing against the northeast chapter of Phi Slamma Jamma.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 31, 2016 0:37:53 GMT -5
I love when I will keep seeing posts about last year what happened at end of the season. It was a crazy five game run, but we were still a 20 loss team and we got crushed as a 16 seed. I think that five game run took our eyes off the consistent problems facing this program. RECRUITING!!!!!! Outside of 2 or three players, the last Seven years have been down. The last 3 years 2 top recruits has left the team! We don't shoot well, don't rebound, have major contributors under 5'10" and no bench. I have to say this program still not In great shape by any means and next year is relying on major contributions from all five freshmen or the season could be 20 plus loses! That is not a promising future given our consistent misses at this level. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a poster who knew Carmnody from his Northwestern days said that Carmody hates recruiting.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 31, 2016 0:43:20 GMT -5
Again, BU did not make a field goal from 11:01 in the 2nd H and still beat us......that's where we are at gentlemen.
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Post by Crosser on Dec 31, 2016 0:45:18 GMT -5
Regarding our emphasis in getting back on D, it seems to me that we could easily have one man - maybe even two - make a token effort to see if there's an offensive rebound available and corral it in. If not, then hustle back on D. We seem to do this very sporadically - one stretch in the first half tonight where we got a few on the same possession.
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