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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 12:37:14 GMT -5
If Pridgen and Lowder both end up in P5 conferences, then that'll be a big indictment on Nelson. I don't care what Bring Back says about "culture" and that losing Lowder is addition by subtraction because he may have been a bad apple. Nelson isn't getting an offensive talent like Lowder anytime soon, so it would have been nice for him to have found a way to make it work. Perhaps we are seeing blemishes of Nelson's ability to manage talent and personalities in his first go-around as a head coach. 1) Lowder is not going to end up at a P5 school, and Pridgen also likely will not. 2) Interesting that you can see into the future. 3) Or perhaps Lowder just didn't want to fit into the program that Nelson is building and Nelson decided that an undersized, injury-prone, shoot-first, defense-last PG was not worth building the program around, and Pridgen was collateral damage for roster turnover that was essential for getting this program back on track.
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Post by Ray on Apr 27, 2020 12:39:38 GMT -5
We have lost one player (Pridgen) who would have been a core piece of a program turnaround. We have lost THE ONLY player who would have been a core piece of a program turnaround.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 12:45:51 GMT -5
We have lost one player (Pridgen) who would have been a core piece of a program turnaround. We have lost THE ONLY player who would have been a core piece of a program turnaround. And we have SEVEN guys who are coming in to hopefully provide a major increase to that number. ---- Nelson has had the opportunity to evaluate the players in the program following his arrival last July, as well as the talent of the four guys he signed in the fall and three guys he signed in the spring. It is pretty clear that he believes his best chance of succeeding at HC is with the latter group of seven. Call me crazy, but I think Nelson has a better handle on the talent coming in vs out than SOV or anyone else around here --- and he will be held accountable for it through the only stat that really matters: Ws.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 27, 2020 12:54:29 GMT -5
Looking forward to hearing how all of the newcomers, regardless of how they perform on the floor, are better than Austin Butler and how he should be relegated to the bench.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 27, 2020 13:04:52 GMT -5
Lowder could have been “a core piece of a program turnaround.”
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Post by newfieguy74 on Apr 27, 2020 13:23:09 GMT -5
Looking forward to hearing how all of the newcomers, regardless of how they perform on the floor, are better than Austin Butler and how he should be relegated to the bench. Butler and Faw will both start and play of lot of minutes all season long. I think that's a lock. Unless, of course, Butler leaves to join the seminary or Faw leaves to join the merchant marine, or some other craziness ensues.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 27, 2020 13:26:31 GMT -5
Faw’s minutes will likely be determined by fouls.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 27, 2020 13:48:07 GMT -5
Looking forward to hearing how all of the newcomers, regardless of how they perform on the floor, are better than Austin Butler and how he should be relegated to the bench. I really hope no one is that stupid or shortsighted that they make such comments. His strength and senior leadership will be key ingredients to start turning this around.
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Post by dadominate on Apr 27, 2020 14:55:27 GMT -5
If Pridgen and Lowder both end up in P5 conferences, then that'll be a big indictment on Nelson. I don't care what Bring Back says about "culture" and that losing Lowder is addition by subtraction because he may have been a bad apple. Nelson isn't getting an offensive talent like Lowder anytime soon, so it would have been nice for him to have found a way to make it work. Perhaps we are seeing blemishes of Nelson's ability to manage talent and personalities in his first go-around as a head coach. 1) Lowder is not going to end up at a P5 school, and Pridgen also likely will not.
2) Interesting that you can see into the future.the depths of self-contradiction and hypocrisy from our resident hoops scholar are getting more and more amusing ! this reminds me of how assured hc70, the bbc of the milan brown era, was that rj evans would only garner interest from low/mid-majors prior to his transfer to and graduation from uconn. it would not at all surprise me to see lowder and pridgen transfer "up" (at least in terms of basketball prowess) from hc as they are two exceptional basketball players for freshmen at our level. while not as much of an impact player at hc as either lowder and pridgen, niego is another solid player whose loss will be another program's gain. i am hopeful that we are replacing them with equal or better talent, but it is certainly not a sure thing.
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Post by dadominate on Apr 27, 2020 14:59:01 GMT -5
Looking forward to hearing how all of the newcomers, regardless of how they perform on the floor, are better than Austin Butler and how he should be relegated to the bench. I really hope no one is that stupid or shortsighted that they make such comments. His strength and senior leadership will be key ingredients to start turning this around. we all know those stupid comments are coming, rgs! while i expect one of our freshmen (martindale?) to be our leading scorer and go to guy on the offensive end, butler will be the cornerstone for whatever success we do have with the strength and leadership (alongside rebounding) that you emphasize.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 27, 2020 15:00:17 GMT -5
Next season every player on the team will want to be there and be wanted by the coaching staff. That alone should be worth a few wins.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 27, 2020 15:01:12 GMT -5
If Pridgen and Lowder both end up in P5 conferences, then that'll be a big indictment on Nelson. I don't care what Bring Back says about "culture" and that losing Lowder is addition by subtraction because he may have been a bad apple. Nelson isn't getting an offensive talent like Lowder anytime soon, so it would have been nice for him to have found a way to make it work. Perhaps we are seeing blemishes of Nelson's ability to manage talent and personalities in his first go-around as a head coach. 1) Lowder is not going to end up at a P5 school, and Pridgen also likely will not. 2) Interesting that you can see into the future. 3) Or perhaps Lowder just didn't want to fit into the program that Nelson is building and Nelson decided that an undersized, injury-prone, shoot-first, defense-last PG was not worth building the program around, and Pridgen was collateral damage for roster turnover that was essential for getting this program back on track. BBC if speculation by other college coaches proves correct, Lowder very well might end up in a P5 conference, and of course he might not. My guess is Lowder and Pridgen end up a level or two above where they were with us. Regardless of their decisions, life will go forward for all involved. Nobody knows why the players departed, but it certainly was not a step toward building a winning culture. It would, however, promote degrees of disfunction for any team or program. I am looking forward to the leadership coming from Butler, Faw, Wade and Reilly next season, and hope the seven or more new players are terrific! We will need four or five of them to produce immediately. There are a range of excuses, or passes granted for the coaching performance this past season, and while I am not buying any of them, for the moment let's agree to your position. I have my fingers crossed Nelson matures as a bench coach next season, because if his ability to coach a game is similar to last season his development is an absolute necessity. As I was told by the great story teller Lefty Driesell at Bethany Beach in the early 90's-- I always wanted to have the best players, but it was not always easy to coach better talent. Nearly thirty years later I don't think that has changed.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 27, 2020 15:13:04 GMT -5
If Pridgen and Lowder both end up in P5 conferences, then that'll be a big indictment on Nelson. I don't care what Bring Back says about "culture" and that losing Lowder is addition by subtraction because he may have been a bad apple. Nelson isn't getting an offensive talent like Lowder anytime soon, so it would have been nice for him to have found a way to make it work. Perhaps we are seeing blemishes of Nelson's ability to manage talent and personalities in his first go-around as a head coach. an undersized, injury-prone, shoot-first, defense-last PG was not worth building the program around Sounds like you are describing Devin Brown (at least the shoot first and defense last part). It's amazing how a coach is able to adjust the mindset of an 18-year old kid.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 27, 2020 15:34:11 GMT -5
1. I wish all our departing players good luck in their future careers wherever they end up.
2. I hope that all our incoming recruits are even better basketball players as they likely will not be "better people" than the ones we lost - maybe as good - probably not better.
3. We don't know why so many players from last season are leaving, just a lot of speculation - and we will likely never know.
4. As others have posted above, the number of players leaving in the last 12 months is unprecedented in Holy Cross history.
5. Marcus Blossom had an opportunity to explain to the Crusader faithful on his Zoom videoconference at least generally what is happening. Perhaps an impossible goal considering the privacy issues involved. I like Marcus but he dodged answering the situation except to say that he hired Nelson because he "does things right" and he expects him and all his coaches to "develop their players." In my eyes, there was very little development/improvement in overall team play over the course of the season. 3-29 was a disgraceful result. I have no issue with some turnover of players. However, with this many players leaving - stars; starters; back-ups; bench warmers; walk-ons - this is, at minimum partially on Nelson. When a cross-section of the team leaves it is more than just a sum total of individual choices. There seems to be "negative synergy" here. Again, this is on Nelson.
6.Every new coach inherits the last guy's players. Once the new coach starts, like it or not, they are now "his guys" and he has a responsibility to get the best out of them. Not run them off. That is an anathema to every thing that Holy Cross stands for. The end does NOT justify the means.
7. I expected much better from Nelson. Unlike HC70 giving Milan Brown 5 years, after what has transpired this first season, Nelson better turn this around both on the court and, as importantly, keeping the players he's recruited. He doesn't get 5 years, or 4, or 3. He's burned that bridge in my eyes.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 27, 2020 15:40:26 GMT -5
One other item regarding Nelson that we have not touched on is how he is handling coaching inside an academically-oriented environment. He has never had to do this, so it would be interesting to see if he has empathy for what his players are going through on the academic side of things and if he is employing any strategies to help them succeed in the classroom.
With all of these players transferring (we don't know all of the reasons), I wonder what percentage was based purely on basketball and if there was anything else that contributed to them leaving the program.
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Post by cmo on Apr 27, 2020 15:42:27 GMT -5
So what does he need to do next year to stay ?
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Post by HC92 on Apr 27, 2020 15:52:31 GMT -5
So what does he need to do next year to stay ? No more transfers or mid-season disappearances.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 15:59:34 GMT -5
an undersized, injury-prone, shoot-first, defense-last PG was not worth building the program around Sounds like you are describing Devin Brown (at least the shoot first and defense last part). It's amazing how a coach is able to adjust the mindset of an 18-year old kid. Yeah, Devin Brown, minus the undersized, injury-prone and PG parts .... oh and also the part where he didn't look to bolt when the going got tough. Near identical other than that! ----- You seem to think this is just a one-way thing where Nelson threw Lowder out while Lowder was begging him to stay. It's a two-way street -- the coach is responsible for developing the player, BUT the player has to buy-in, make sacrifices, and put in the work. Devin Brown did that. Lowder did not.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 27, 2020 16:06:08 GMT -5
BBC, forget Lowder . . . . . . there are a LOT of guys besides him who are leaving. Were they all "dogging it?"
Remember: "You are what your record says you are."
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Post by WCHC Sports on Apr 27, 2020 16:08:13 GMT -5
Next season every player on the team will want to be there and be wanted by the coaching staff. That alone should be worth a few wins. Nobody expects the players coming in to not want to be here... until they don't want to be here anymore lol. We can hope, but we don't know this for a fact. THAT is the indictment on coach BN without the details at this point in time.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 16:10:15 GMT -5
1. I wish all our departing players good luck in their future careers wherever they end up. 2. I hope that all our incoming recruits are even better basketball players as they likely will not be "better people" than the ones we lost - maybe as good - probably not better. 3. We don't know why so many players from last season are leaving, just a lot of speculation - and we will likely never know. 4. As others have posted above, the number of players leaving in the last 12 months is unprecedented in Holy Cross history. 5. Marcus Blossom had an opportunity to explain to the Crusader faithful on his Zoom videoconference at least generally what is happening. Perhaps an impossible goal considering the privacy issues involved. I like Marcus but he dodged answering the situation except to say that he hired Nelson because he "does things right" and he expects him and all his coaches to "develop their players." In my eyes, there was very little development/improvement in overall team play over the course of the season. 3-29 was a disgraceful result. I have no issue with some turnover of players. However, with this many players leaving - stars; starters; back-ups; bench warmers; walk-ons - this is, at minimum partially on Nelson. When a cross-section of the team leaves it is more than just a sum total of individual choices. There seems to be "negative synergy" here. Again, this is on Nelson.
6.Every new coach inherits the last guy's players. Once the new coach starts, like it or not, they are now "his guys" and he has a responsibility to get the best out of them. Not run them off. That is an anathema to every thing that Holy Cross stands for. The end does NOT justify the means. 7. I expected much better from Nelson. Unlike HC70 giving Milan Brown 5 years, after what has transpired this first season, Nelson better turn this around both on the court and, as importantly, keeping the players he's recruited. He doesn't get 5 years, or 4, or 3. He's burned that bridge in my eyes. I actually thought Blossom did a pretty good job addressing the situation given the circumstances. He at least gave off the impression that he was aligned with Nelson and laid out three buckets for players who left (paraphrasing a bit here): 1) Players better suited for D2/D3 2) Players who did not want to be role players maxing out at ~20 minutes per game 3) Players who wanted to try to advance up a level Unlike those who are already ready to bury Nelson, I do not blame him for allowing players in buckets 1 & 2 walk out the door. (Note: it starts to become a different story for bucket #2 when it comes to guys who he recruits) The only major issue here is just how many players were in buckets 1 & 2 when Nelson took over last July. Wanting stability (as some around here apparently do/did) out of a program that finished in last place, had a string of miscreants getting chucked, lost its three best players, hired a new coach in July, and then was picked to finish in last place again (by a wide margin) is just plain foolish.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 16:11:23 GMT -5
BBC, forget Lowder . . . . . . there are a LOT of guys besides him who are leaving. Were they all "dogging it?" Remember: "You are what your record says you are." See my latest post with Blossom's three buckets. Aside from Pridgen, they were all either not D1 players or did not want to be role players capping out at 20 MPG.
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Post by hc17 on Apr 27, 2020 16:19:00 GMT -5
With all of the talk on former PGs, this may shine a little light on Nelson's expectation at the position
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 27, 2020 16:31:53 GMT -5
Next season there will only be three scholarship players (Wade, Faw, Butler) who Nelson did not recruit. All of them appear to have great attitudes. Our junior transfer seems filled with gratitude to have made it to D-1 so that is four good role models for the incoming freshmen. The coaching staff will all be back and cohesive after a year together, so there should be no more issues as the new culture is set and there is nowhere to go but up.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 27, 2020 16:35:15 GMT -5
With all of the talk on former PGs, this may shine a little light on Nelson's expectation at the position Very timely!
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