|
Post by hcgrad94 on Mar 31, 2022 14:31:26 GMT -5
IIRC, HC averages 5.25 OOC "opportunities" each year over a four year cycle. Coach Chesney has succeeded in most everything he has attempted. League change might be too big a push (might not be, he's got more pull than PL loyalists like me) but it will be exciting to see how he and Kit use these opportunities in future years. I would imagine HC becomes more and more attractive to CAA level teams as an opponent as we keep winning and add value to the other team's strength of schedule. Think you have it backwards. CAA teams can’t afford to lose to PL teams. Optics aren’t any good. Nor do those Southern CAA teams want another road trip. We have UNH and URI on future schedules which is perfect.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 31, 2022 14:41:45 GMT -5
You have a football coaching staff and I believe an administration (not to mention deep pocketed alumni) that are ready and want to compete at a higher level. Winning PL titles is not good enough for them. Again...there are plenty of schools that compete at a high level and still have a high academic profile. Why are people afraid to excel in both? There is not one lick of past evidence that says HC will become an athletics cesspool. Don't be afraid and embrace what the new goals are and will be for the football program moving forward. A PL championship is NOT good enough for Coach Chesney. gks is absolutely right. If Coach Chesney and his staff had their way we'd be playing in the CAA right now. Do you notice that a number of the kids we are recruiting are also being recruited by CAA teams and some FBS schools. We are gravitating away from the kids that want the Ivies. This isn't about academics but about a higher level of football. It also doesn't affect our academic standards either. The CAA is highly looked upon in the FCS. Holy Cross could lose 3-4 games a year (don't want to) but still be chosen to play in the playoffs. Just an opinion! What is your motivation?
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 14:46:20 GMT -5
IIRC, HC averages 5.25 OOC "opportunities" each year over a four year cycle. Coach Chesney has succeeded in most everything he has attempted. League change might be too big a push (might not be, he's got more pull than PL loyalists like me) but it will be exciting to see how he and Kit use these opportunities in future years. I would imagine HC becomes more and more attractive to CAA level teams as an opponent as we keep winning and add value to the other team's strength of schedule. Think you have it backwards. CAA teams can’t afford to lose to PL teams. Optics aren’t any good. Nor do those Southern CAA teams want another road trip. We have UNH and URI on future schedules which is perfect. Does sound about perfect. Leaves room for traditional Ivies and low lying fruit in FBS.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 14:47:31 GMT -5
gks is absolutely right. If Coach Chesney and his staff had their way we'd be playing in the CAA right now. Do you notice that a number of the kids we are recruiting are also being recruited by CAA teams and some FBS schools. We are gravitating away from the kids that want the Ivies. This isn't about academics but about a higher level of football. It also doesn't affect our academic standards either. The CAA is highly looked upon in the FCS. Holy Cross could lose 3-4 games a year (don't want to) but still be chosen to play in the playoffs. Just an opinion! What is your motivation? He's passionate about HC football and I love it!
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 14:54:04 GMT -5
You have a football coaching staff and I believe an administration (not to mention deep pocketed alumni) that are ready and want to compete at a higher level. Winning PL titles is not good enough for them. Again...there are plenty of schools that compete at a high level and still have a high academic profile. Why are people afraid to excel in both? There is not one lick of past evidence that says HC will become an athletics cesspool. Don't be afraid and embrace what the new goals are and will be for the football program moving forward. A PL championship is NOT good enough for Coach Chesney. Don't be afraid"? Don't try to Ghost me. Sir, you have no basis to make such a stupid comment.What is your motivation for HC to compete at a higher level? What is the benefit to HC? Or, is it purely personal on your part and all that? Don't be stupid!He's not stupid. He's one of the football alums who strongly support the program and takes the time to give us the inside football info that has kept us sane during the MBB season. Be happy, he's saving us money on medication.😊
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 31, 2022 14:58:19 GMT -5
long, Thank you. A football scholar athlete alum is worthy of respect but so am I. You dear sir, are wise, a true gentleman. I deleted. Thanks again.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Mar 31, 2022 15:00:42 GMT -5
...nor does it have to be. That is why HC competes in the FCS Championship playoffs for which we are already eligible. However, in most other sports (of the many in which HC competes) we could have to improve substantially for our record to be considered mediocre. That is a sad reality. It certainly does not warrant a move to a higher (and tougher) league. Besides, at this point, who actually might want us? Your last point is a very important one. Outside of the possibility of a better athletic conference wanting to add HC as an associate member in football, I can’t imagine any conference being interested in adding the Holy Cross athletic program. That wasn’t always the case but our relevance athletically in the East is pretty much non existent.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Mar 31, 2022 15:06:07 GMT -5
/\ /\ Yes.
If we keep winning in football we’ll get more attractive to the CAA as a football-only member. Similarly to fellow Catholic school and football-only CAA member Villanova (although perhaps lacking a bit of their current academic and athletic cachet).
This is not deserting the PL (for those who care) since we’d keep the rest of the sports (participatory and otherwise) in it (just as two PL non-football members already do).
Nothing wrong with moving up in football.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 31, 2022 15:09:38 GMT -5
Are full PL members even allowed to leave the conference to play in another conference for football or basketball?
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 31, 2022 15:14:05 GMT -5
Don’t believe it can be done as a charter member of the PL. The other two schools are associate members.
Loosing either: Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, would jeopardize the PL automatic bid as a football conference.
|
|
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Mar 31, 2022 15:45:42 GMT -5
Loosing either: Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, would jeopardize the PL automatic bid as a football conference. Per the PL bylaws there must be a minimum of five schools to sponsor a sport. If any of them left, absent BU, Loyola, or American adding the sport, the league would no longer sponsor football. Per NCAA bylaws, there must be a minimum of seven schools to sponsor a sport. If Fordham and Georgetown left, absent expansion, the league would not be eligible for a playoff autobid.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Mar 31, 2022 15:51:04 GMT -5
Some point out correctly the PL provides an easy path to the FCS playoffs but there is so much more to the season than the end of year playoffs. Back in the day, students, alumni and fans would actually get excited about at least some of the upcoming games. How often in the last 30-35 years would you say that has happened when it comes to PL games. Truth be told, I don't know if there is a conference in the East at the FCS level that would bring those days back.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 15:56:11 GMT -5
If HC pulled out, PL FB might become like one of those temporary office rental centers for schools needing a place to hang their FB helmet for a season or more until something better comes along.
See Mass, U. which is stuck in FB limbo because they cling to a BB league with no FB. Should they drop from FBS, the Minutemen might actually be one of those transient FB tenants in PL FB until they can find something better.
It would be ironic if UMass and UConn dropped down from FBS into PL FB but HC had moved up to the CAA just before Chesney moved on, and while the PL had morphed into a geographic gem for HC we were now stuck in the cellar of the CAA blocked from moving back by millions in exit and entrance fees and a resentful PL membership.
OK, I out did myself with all those menacing hypotheticals🙂, but my drift is "Measure twice and cut once" when it comes to league changes.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 16:00:56 GMT -5
Loosing either: Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Colgate, Holy Cross, would jeopardize the PL automatic bid as a football conference. Per the PL bylaws there must be a minimum of five schools to sponsor a sport. If any of them left, absent BU, Loyola, or American adding the sport, the league would no longer sponsor football. Per NCAA bylaws, there must be a minimum of seven schools to sponsor a sport. If Fordham and Georgetown left, absent expansion, the league would not be eligible for a playoff autobid. PL Baseball has six members and has a playoff auto bid. Special dispensation for baseball because (sadly) schools have been dropping the national pastime?
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 31, 2022 16:03:10 GMT -5
Many of the schools that “Back in the Day”, from the 1960’s,1970’s, still are rotating through the schedule. BC, Syracuse, Army, Buffalo, UConn, UNH, URI, Yale. With new FBS schools on the horizon, Miami OH, San Jose St, North Illinois, etc.
What additional schools do you think would add to the interest level on Saturday afternoons that are feasible?
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 31, 2022 16:34:39 GMT -5
Many of the schools that “Back in the Day”, from the 1960’s,1970’s, still are rotating through the schedule. BC, Syracuse, Army, Buffalo, UConn, UNH, URI, Yale. With new FBS schools on the horizon, Miami OH, San Jose St, North Illinois, etc. What additional schools do you think would add to the interest level on Saturday afternoons that are feasible? Games I'd like to see at some point before I hit 40: Maine UMass Columbia Princeton San Diego Do we have any actual word on the Army hame rumored for 2023?
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 31, 2022 17:02:47 GMT -5
Why in God's name would HC ever want to join and compete against higher level CAA teams?What is the motivation for some to want HC to compete at a higher level ? Why? How does membership a league with an OVERALL lower academic profile than the PL serve the mission of HC? Doubt membership is going to happen any time soon. PL all the way.
|
|
|
Post by hc80 on Mar 31, 2022 17:37:42 GMT -5
For some reason, I occasionally unblock mm67 and read what inane items he pontificates….then i read one and am Cured for many months.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Mar 31, 2022 17:43:33 GMT -5
For some reason, I occasionally unblock mm67 and read what inane items he pontificates….then i read one and am Cured for many months. He asked: "How does membership a league with an OVERALL lower academic profile than the PL serve the mission of HC?" Was that question troubling for you? How would you answer it? It needs to be answered (hopefully) before HC starts looking to jump ship from the PL.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 17:45:08 GMT -5
Villanova during the regular season. Duke and Vanderbilt are high academic power conference teams but on the edge of potentially beatable. Our friends the SDSU Jackrabbits might enjoy a trip to New England to see the fall foliage. New Orleans is always nice to visit and play Tulane.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Mar 31, 2022 17:45:51 GMT -5
For some reason, I occasionally unblock mm67 and read what inane items he pontificates….then i read one and am Cured for many months. Inane? Young man, know your place. I do not suffer fools easily. What is your problem?
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Mar 31, 2022 17:50:38 GMT -5
For some reason, I occasionally unblock mm67 and read what inane items he pontificates….then i read one and am Cured for many months. He asked: "How does membership a league with an OVERALL lower academic profile than the PL serve the mission of HC?" Was that question troubling for you? How would you answer it? It needs to be answered (hopefully) before HC starts looking to jump ship from the PL. Not so much academics, but losing our small group of peer national LAC schools we have 35-40 years of history with now. The CAA schools are generally fine academic institutions, but many are large public research universities that are in a different category and face different issues than HC.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on Mar 31, 2022 17:51:12 GMT -5
Why in God's name would HC ever want to join and compete against higher level CAA teams?What is the motivation for some to want HC to compete at a higher level ? Why? How does membership a league with an OVERALL lower academic profile than the PL serve the mission of HC? Doubt membership is going to happen any time soon. PL all the way. Lol buried in the 1980's PL schools don't care about football. Georgtown is a basketball school Bucknell is a basketball school Fordham wants to be a basketball school Colgate is a basketball power You wouldn't care but Bucknell has sucked for 20 years Georgetown has sucked for 20 years No titles nothing! Right now HC is the one with the indoor facility HC is the one raising the coaches salaries. HC is blowing out the PL competition. HC is bringing in the donations. HC is the one winning an FBS game I saw on Any given Saturday people say this HC run is not that special. Yeah ok Lehigh fans. Look at the teams you beat in the 2000's Revisionist history at its finest. PLUS THE PATRIOT LEAGUE BRINGS ZERO FANS TO FITTON! Worcester fans or PL away team fans.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 31, 2022 18:01:41 GMT -5
Phreek- I'd need more detail before I agreed that HC alums are not deep-pocketed. When you say that alums/boosters fund a bit over six percent of the athletic budget, does that include just donations specifically designated for athletics? When an alum or supporter makes an undesignated donation to the college m doesn't some of that $$$ end up in the athletic budget? Holy Cross submits an annual revenue and expense report to the NCAA. All member institutions so. This report breaks out the sources of generated revenue, e.g., ticket sales, media rights, licensing etc. For all of FCS,Student fees 13 percent (HC doesn't charge a separate athletics fee. This is more common in state universities) Donor Contributions & Endowments 11 percent Media Rights, NCAA Distributions 5 percent Ticket Sales 4 percent Guarantees 3 percent Royalties, Licensing 3 percent Other 3 percent All generated revenue 42 percentSchool subsidy 58 percent Holy Cross is grouped in Quartile One among all FCS schools. Schools in Quartile One had a median expense of $35.5 million in 2019-20. HC was below the median. Quartile Two had a median expense of $24.9 million. Holy Cross expenses were way above the Quartile Two median. For Quartile One schools, the median loss was $26.7 million. To balance the books, the college/university appropriates money from student tuition, fees (including room and board, but excluding athletic fees, other general revenue, and the distribution of unrestricted endowment monies. For schools in the first quartile, Institutions' support represented 57 percent of total revenue, student fees were 12 percent, and alumni contributions were 10 percent. Holy Cross expenses in 2019-20 were nearly $34 million. The CAF received about $2.1 million if memory serves. The CAF contributions covered 6.2 percent of the athletic department budget. There is no way of capturing how much of a donor's contribution to the annual fund went to athletics. It might be zero. The institutional subsidy might be financed entirely by student tuition, for example. The CAF is not part of the institutional subsidy, it counts as generated revenue. Those interested in an actual revenue and expense report can download the 2020-21 report from the University of Utah, if one wants to see where the money goes in great detail. utahutes.com/documents/2022/1/14/FY21_NCAA_Revenue_and_Expense_Report.pdf^^^ Note the $0 revenue for ticket sales in most sports because of the pandemic.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 31, 2022 18:03:49 GMT -5
Don't be afraid"? Don't try to Ghost me. Sir, you have no basis to make such a stupid comment.What is your motivation for HC to compete at a higher level? What is the benefit to HC? Or, is it purely personal on your part and all that? Don't be stupid! He's not stupid. He's one of the football alums who strongly support the program and takes the time to give us the inside football info that has kept us sane during the MBB season. Be happy, he's saving us money on medication.😊 I don't believe gks is an alum.
|
|