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Post by HC92 on Apr 12, 2022 11:47:03 GMT -5
Here’s what we have for scholarship players for next year. If the season started tomorrow, I guess either Bo or Dorsey would be the point guard. Walk-on Tomer Oron will be a soph and I think he’s a point. No idea if he can work his way into the rotation.
By Position: PG ? Wings Montgomery, Dorsey, Octave, Lewis, Batchelder, Kirkwood Bigs Gates, Kenney, Coulibaly, Rabinovich
By Roster Class (some Sophs and Jrs may have an extra year): Senior (1): Gates Junior (4): Dorsey, Rabinovich, Montgomery, Coulbaly Soph (3): Octave, Lewis, Kenney, Frosh (2): Batchelder, Kirkwood
Absent the ability to get studs, I’d take the best Point guard we can get and hold the other two scholarships for next year to give us a three person class entering in 2023.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 12, 2022 12:02:02 GMT -5
I have seen little of him, but Lewis certainly is not as strong as most bigs. However, since he would not be able to cover any wings, I think he has to be considered a stretch 4 big. Octave has a possible third year opportunity, but I think that Kenney and Lewis do niot.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 12, 2022 12:53:51 GMT -5
In looking at the roster, I wonder how long it’s been since our shortest player was 6’1” or taller. Batchelder is reportedly 6’1”. I think he’s the shortest one right now.
My quick research shows it would have been before 2002-03 when Torey was a freshman. We had two years when Joey Reilly was the shortest at a listed 6’0”. Every other year back to 2002-03, we had at least one guy with a listed height that started with a 5.
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Post by trimster on Apr 12, 2022 13:17:14 GMT -5
I have seen little of him, but Lewis certainly is not as strong as most bigs. However, since he would not be able to cover any wings, I think he has to be considered a stretch 4 big. Octave has a possible third year opportunity, but I think that Kenney and Lewis do niot. Not sure what you are getting at with Kenney and Lewis and a third year opportunity. They will both be true sophs come the fall. Octave will be a soph eligibility wise and probably a jr academically. I am guessing HC will accept all of his credits from the AFA but I don't know that.
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Post by Tom on Apr 12, 2022 13:27:15 GMT -5
I have seen little of him, but Lewis certainly is not as strong as most bigs. However, since he would not be able to cover any wings, I think he has to be considered a stretch 4 big. Octave has a possible third year opportunity, but I think that Kenney and Lewis do niot. Not sure what you are getting at with Kenney and Lewis and a third year opportunity. They will both be true sophs come the fall. Octave will be a soph eligibility wise and probably a jr academically. I am guessing HC will accept all of his credits from the AFA but I don't know that. My guess is that Octave will walk in the door as something like a 2nd semester sophomore. He will come up with an academic plan like Gates that has him graduating in 2025 or he will do some overloading (presumably like Townsel) that will have him graduating in 2024. Could go either way depending on what he wants
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Post by Ray on Apr 12, 2022 15:56:57 GMT -5
I think given the portal dynamics, there's no point in ever holding a scholarship for next year. Class balance is never gonna happen... keep bringing guys in (assuming they're D1 caliber), the position battles will work themselves out.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 12, 2022 18:14:07 GMT -5
I think given the portal dynamics, there's no point in ever holding a scholarship for next year. Class balance is never gonna happen... keep bringing guys in (assuming they're D1 caliber), the position battles will work themselves out. There’s a point if you can’t get guys this year who are likely to be significant contributors during their HC careers. In that case, you hold the scholarship. Better to have an empty scholarship for one year than a wasted one for four years.
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Post by Tom on Apr 12, 2022 18:22:52 GMT -5
Absent the ability to get studs, I’d take the best Point guard we can get and hold the other two scholarships for next year to give us a three person class entering in 2023. Kind of going into the season with one hand tied behind your back if you're only using 11 scholarships. Better hope no one gets hurt. Especially if you believe that this will be a make or break year for the coaching staff
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Post by HC92 on Apr 12, 2022 18:32:11 GMT -5
Absent the ability to get studs, I’d take the best Point guard we can get and hold the other two scholarships for next year to give us a three person class entering in 2023. Kind of going into the season with one hand tied behind your back if you're only using 11 scholarships. Better hope no one gets hurt. Especially if you believe that this will be a make or break year for the coaching staff I’ve already landed on break so I’m hoping a new coach who might be able to bring in some really talented players who want to be here gets to use them. Nelson will obviously want to use them even if just for practice bodies.
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Post by Ray on Apr 13, 2022 10:14:15 GMT -5
I think given the portal dynamics, there's no point in ever holding a scholarship for next year. Class balance is never gonna happen... keep bringing guys in (assuming they're D1 caliber), the position battles will work themselves out. There’s a point if you can’t get guys this year who are likely to be significant contributors during their HC careers. In that case, you hold the scholarship. Better to have an empty scholarship for one year than a wasted one for four years. Right, that's why I said "assuming they're D1 caliber". We're in violent agreement.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 13, 2022 10:20:24 GMT -5
I think given the portal dynamics, there's no point in ever holding a scholarship for next year. Class balance is never gonna happen... keep bringing guys in (assuming they're D1 caliber), the position battles will work themselves out. There’s a point if you can’t get guys this year who are likely to be significant contributors during their HC careers. In that case, you hold the scholarship. Better to have an empty scholarship for one year than a wasted one for four years. The problem is Nelson is hanging on for dear life (or so we think) and he's going to do everything he possibly can to ensure a better than .500 year next season...even if that means handcuffing himself or the next coach in 2023 and beyond.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Apr 13, 2022 17:45:09 GMT -5
^
Also why I'm sure we'll see two D3 tomato cans on the sked again this season.
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Post by crosspride on Apr 14, 2022 6:37:24 GMT -5
There’s a point if you can’t get guys this year who are likely to be significant contributors during their HC careers. In that case, you hold the scholarship. Better to have an empty scholarship for one year than a wasted one for four years. The problem is Nelson is hanging on for dear life (or so we think) and he's going to do everything he possibly can to ensure a better than .500 year next season...even if that means handcuffing himself or the next coach in 2023 and beyond. C’mon. In the new normal of the transfer portal there’s no such thing as planning for 2023 and beyond. There are about 100 things to criticize Nelson for, but when you’re pre-criticizing him for trying to win basketball games (his job!!!), the objectivity ship has sailed.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 14, 2022 11:08:50 GMT -5
The problem is Nelson is hanging on for dear life (or so we think) and he's going to do everything he possibly can to ensure a better than .500 year next season...even if that means handcuffing himself or the next coach in 2023 and beyond. C’mon. In the new normal of the transfer portal there’s no such thing as planning for 2023 and beyond. There are about 100 things to criticize Nelson for, but when you’re pre-criticizing him for trying to win basketball games (his job!!!), the objectivity ship has sailed. For Nelson, one year is as much planning as you're going to get. For someone else coming in, I wouldn't look past 2 years any more, maybe 3....no way 4.
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 14, 2022 12:19:43 GMT -5
The problem is Nelson is hanging on for dear life (or so we think) and he's going to do everything he possibly can to ensure a better than .500 year next season...even if that means handcuffing himself or the next coach in 2023 and beyond. C’mon. In the new normal of the transfer portal there’s no such thing as planning for 2023 and beyond. There are about 100 things to criticize Nelson for, but when you’re pre-criticizing him for trying to win basketball games (his job!!!), the objectivity ship has sailed. Personally I don't criticize Nelson for this at all. I criticize the AD and administration for handcuffing the next guy to come in. Because if Nelson gives scholarships to guys who aren't good enough, then it hurts the program for years to come. I like the Octave signing. I don't like the Kirkwood based on his lack of offers. It goes without saying time will tell. Hopefully they fill the next two spots with good players. PG is an absolute must. I'd make an argument they need a shooter and a PG desperately.
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Post by purplehaze on Apr 14, 2022 12:24:38 GMT -5
Your argument only makes sense if the scholarship is for 4 years (or thru graduation) - it is still not clear to me if HC is in a position to consider the scholarship 'renewable' every year
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Post by HC92 on Apr 14, 2022 14:18:19 GMT -5
The problem is Nelson is hanging on for dear life (or so we think) and he's going to do everything he possibly can to ensure a better than .500 year next season...even if that means handcuffing himself or the next coach in 2023 and beyond. C’mon. In the new normal of the transfer portal there’s no such thing as planning for 2023 and beyond. There are about 100 things to criticize Nelson for, but when you’re pre-criticizing him for trying to win basketball games (his job!!!), the objectivity ship has sailed. Basically what dharry13 already said but I’m not criticizing Nelson. I’m saying his short term interests may not align with the long term interests of HC. That’s on the administration for putting us in that spot. Nelson absolutely should do what he can to save his job.
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 14, 2022 14:32:38 GMT -5
Your argument only makes sense if the scholarship is for 4 years (or thru graduation) - it is still not clear to me if HC is in a position to consider the scholarship 'renewable' every year I don't think there are too many programs out there that want to get in the habit of not "renewing" scholarships. I fully understand they are 1 year scholarships that are reviewed (although I'm not sure every school abides by that - I think some are truly 4 years) annually. That said - it's a dangerous game to start doing that because you'll be known as a school that doesn't renew a scholarship and it's tough to recruit against that narrative. So with that said - Nelson signing low end players will just handcuff the next guy who comes in after this year (yes, I'm assuming he's gone after this year) - and the new guy is set up to fail if his roster littered with D2 type players. Who knows how it will all turn out. At the end of the day the only real loss to me is Luc. I'm not taking anything away from RJ but honestly I didn't see enough of him in a competitive situation to have a good opinion on him. What I saw was pretty good, but was he a difference maker - IMO, No. Luc was different. Martindale and Townsell - not D1 players IMO. Luc - yes. RJ - yes, but low end D1 - and is replaceable. Humphrey - also replaceable. I mean - is anyone even hearing anything on Martindale and Humphrey getting offers from any D1 schools?
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 14, 2022 14:43:11 GMT -5
C’mon. In the new normal of the transfer portal there’s no such thing as planning for 2023 and beyond. There are about 100 things to criticize Nelson for, but when you’re pre-criticizing him for trying to win basketball games (his job!!!), the objectivity ship has sailed. Personally I don't criticize Nelson for this at all. I criticize the AD and administration for handcuffing the next guy to come in. Because if Nelson gives scholarships to guys who aren't good enough, then it hurts the program for years to come. I like the Octave signing. I don't like the Kirkwood based on his lack of offers. It goes without saying time will tell. Hopefully they fill the next two spots with good players. PG is an absolute must. I'd make an argument they need a shooter and a PG desperately. I'm not opposed to the strong AD model. The AD can write the coaching contract to include AD sign off on all scholarship offers and renewals. It just would take more work by the AD. The old saying that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely has merit. Some schools give head coaches absolute power over roster and scholarships and lose the ability to keep their school on mission if the coach has different priorities, other than firing the coach which gets expensive.
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Post by dharry13 on Apr 14, 2022 14:48:46 GMT -5
I would never want an AD signing off on who a coach signs for recruits. You'd never be able to hire a coach worth their salt. Kind of like the Parcells quote - if I'm cooking the food at least let me pick the groceries.
I just think they should have fired Nelson. But that ship has sailed, so we will see what they sign in their next two spots. I can't imagine Nelson will leave them unfilled.
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Post by joe on Apr 14, 2022 15:33:31 GMT -5
The statistical likelihood of the program turning around under the current management is pretty close to zero, based on virtually every metric possible. Additionally, the time required to turn the program around is increasing the deeper we sink. That being said, I hope I’m dead wrong.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 14, 2022 20:19:41 GMT -5
These four coaches entering their fourth year together at HC and in the PL have to have gained skill at recruiting for HC in the PL. They should be able to find better fits than when they first started.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Apr 14, 2022 20:32:22 GMT -5
Doesn't matter who Nelson brings in if he can't coach a lick.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 14, 2022 21:32:40 GMT -5
Doesn't matter who Nelson brings in if he can't coach a lick. Amen, brother--and when I think of coaching existing players (i.e. post recruitment) I think of X's and O's AND player development. Look at how Jehyve Floyd improved his game over his four year career-surely there was a lot of coaching involved to improve his skill and performance so dramatically. Talent recognition Recruiting Player Retention Player Development & Motivation X's & O's And more
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Post by hchoops on Apr 14, 2022 22:26:23 GMT -5
Motivation to compete All play selflessly
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