|
Post by bringbackcaro on May 10, 2022 15:03:48 GMT -5
How about roster losing ? Only guy I am really upset about losing is Luc, but I'm not sure how much more Nelson could have actually done in today's environment. If the coach before him left behind more than a bag of balls, maybe we could have had some positive momentum in the program and avoided all of the losing associated with needing to clean house?If you give him credit for building, should you not give him at least some blame for players transferring ? I have -- please update your log if you don't already have it in there.
You say Octave is locked in for 3 years. Could he not graduate in two ? Then transfer and have to sit out a year? How many teams are giving out 2-year schollies for 1 year of play in the current environment?
You also write that Octave is a potential starter, yet you think Batch is the top newcomer. Will they both start ? Octave has two years of D1 experience, which should not be discounted. Batch's best role at the beginning of his Frosh year may be as a shooter/score off the bench. I have high expectations for Bo to make a big leap and have one of the wing spots on lockdown. Batch is who I'm most excited about in this group if he can pull off a miracle and stay at HC for four years. What about Kirkwood’s game gives him a high ceiling ? Size, pedigree, potential of flying under the radar due to COVID restrictions in Canada.
What of Wilbar’s game gives him the ceiling of a difference maker in the PL ? He's 6'11 and can play out the perimeter. If he puts it together, pL bigs will have difficulty guarding him.
This sounds like that glass you mention is 99% full. With no point guard. First game is 6 months away.Glass > 1% full answers in Red.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on May 10, 2022 15:08:48 GMT -5
You can't be serious. We don't have a legitimate big man and point guard on the roster, but other than that the roster he has pieced together is great. He built the roster to have a Soph PG & Junior PG next year, but they both transferred. Did you want him to have 4 PGs on the roster last year to anticipate the potential of transfers? Was he supposed to anticipate that RJ would get hurt and then make a boneheaded decision to transfer to Charleston Southern? Should he have just not recruited Luc if he had the potential to be the PL ROY and then transfer to the highest bidder? I would imagine the staff is actively working to fill out the roster with a PG or two. If the roster looks the same as it does now in December, I would disagree with putting all of our eggs in Nolan Dorsey's basket at that position. Then whose basket would you out the eggs in ?
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on May 10, 2022 15:14:33 GMT -5
He built the roster to have a Soph PG & Junior PG next year, but they both transferred. Did you want him to have 4 PGs on the roster last year to anticipate the potential of transfers? Was he supposed to anticipate that RJ would get hurt and then make a boneheaded decision to transfer to Charleston Southern? Should he have just not recruited Luc if he had the potential to be the PL ROY and then transfer to the highest bidder? I would imagine the staff is actively working to fill out the roster with a PG or two. If the roster looks the same as it does now in December, I would disagree with putting all of our eggs in Nolan Dorsey's basket at that position. Then whose basket would you out the eggs in ? The season is 6 months away. There are hundreds of guys in the transfer portal. There are also a bunch (number unknown) of unsigned high school players. Remember that guy Torey Thomas? Decent player, IMHO. He committed to HC on April 28th. And that was in the era of no transfer portal & no COVID impact on the recruiting circuit.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 10, 2022 17:06:17 GMT -5
I see: when it comes to being evaluated for his roster building, Coach Nelson gets credit for the both the players who left the team and the new players who replaced them. The blockbuster baseball trade comes to mind-.you’d give Cleveland’s GM credit for building the roster with both slugger Rocky Colavito and batting champion Harvey Kuenn.
|
|
|
Post by ndgradbuthcfan on May 10, 2022 17:10:48 GMT -5
The irresistible force has met the immovable object.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on May 10, 2022 18:07:25 GMT -5
Harvey Kuenn was a favorite. Had a Harvey Kuenn glove. Tempus fugit.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2022 21:51:26 GMT -5
I see: when it comes to being evaluated for his roster building, Coach Nelson gets credit for the both the players who left the team and the new players who replaced them. The blockbuster baseball trade comes to mind-.you’d give Cleveland’s GM credit for building the roster with both slugger Rocky Colavito and batting champion Harvey Kuenn. That trade started the curse of Rocky Colavito and the Indians/Guardians haven't won the world series since. I loved the way Rocky stretched with the bat behind his back before approaching the plate.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on May 11, 2022 7:22:07 GMT -5
Getting back to the roster - to me, Bo and Joe O really need to establish themselves as upper tier PL players next year if they want to have a real chance to compete for the top of the league. But, will Bo's effectiveness be comprised if he has to play major minutes as the lead guard (if it's not Dorsey or some new guy TBD)? Bo and Joe just can't be average imho.
|
|
|
Post by Xmassader on May 11, 2022 7:25:35 GMT -5
Started following Tiger baseball in 1958. Harvey Kuenn (#7) quickly became my favorite player and won the batting title in 1959. Was listening to the last Tiger exhibition game radio broadcast in the spring of 1960, when HOF Tiger announcer Ernie Harwell (in his first yr. broadcasting for the Tigers) announced in the 5th inning of the game that “We have a big trade to announce but we’ll wait to the end of the game to do so”.
At the end of the game, he started his announcement with the words “The Tigers have traded AL batting champion…” Before he finished, I think I almost pulled the radio out of the wall in disgust. Cleveland GM Frank “Trader” Lane was quoted as saying “I traded a hamburger (Colavito) for a steak (Kuenn).
Kuenn hit .308 in his first yr. in Cleveland and then was traded to the Giants. After the trade, he never hit as well as he had in his 7 yrs. with the Tigers.
OTOH, Colavito had 4 good seasons with the Tigers, especially the expansion year of 1961 when he hit .290 with 45 HRs and 140 RBIs and helped lead the Tigers to 101 wins in 1961 and a second place finish that yielded no post season play. “Don’t knock the Rock” became a popular phrase in Michigan (as it had in Cleveland) and many young players mimicked his pre-first pitch routine (stretching with the bat behind his shoulders and then reaching with the bat to tap the far side of home plate).
Ky…hard to believe 62 yrs. have passed since then. Thanks for the memory.
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on May 11, 2022 7:57:40 GMT -5
How is this the HC Men's Basketball thread?
|
|
|
Post by Ignutz on May 11, 2022 8:02:08 GMT -5
How is this the HC Men's Basketball thread? Yeah, can you believe the price of a gallon of unleaded regular these days?
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on May 11, 2022 8:05:59 GMT -5
We definitely need a detour function on the board. Use some AI to figure out when a thread has moved to something completely unrelated and then start a new thread under the appropriate category so the discussion can still be had for those interested without driving others crazy. I am not throwing stones as I certainly engage in the occasional detour but the 60s Indians baseball discussion in the 2022-23 roster thread got me thinking. Hopefully the Dean can get the AI up and running soon. 😀
|
|
|
Post by dharry13 on May 11, 2022 8:15:54 GMT -5
May 11th and no Point Guard. What's the wait?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on May 11, 2022 8:18:36 GMT -5
We don't need no stinkin' point guard. Most overrated position in college basketball. Discuss . . . . . . .
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on May 11, 2022 8:28:05 GMT -5
Bob Cousy, Joe Kelly, Roger Breslin, Aaron Jordan, Jave Meade, Pat Doherty, Torey Thomas, ? Apologize for the ones I omitted.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on May 11, 2022 8:44:23 GMT -5
Bob Cousy, Joe Kelly, Roger Breslin, Aaron Jordan, Jave Meade, Pat Doherty, Torey Thomas, ? Apologize for the ones I omitted. Who was Colgate's PG last year? Nelly Cummings, who was second on the team in assists at only 3.4 APG? (Note: I am not advocating for HC to not have a point guard, but rather supporting the notion that it is not as important as it once was to have a "pure" pass-first PG to initiate a half-court offense.) (Note #2: Once again, we already have a PG on the roster who was recruited to play in the Mountain West out of high school. Is he our future at the position? Nobody here knows, but the coaching staff has seen him at the position exponentially more than anyone on Crossports.)
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 11, 2022 8:46:17 GMT -5
Getting back to the roster - to me, Bo and Joe O really need to establish themselves as upper tier PL players next year if they want to have a real chance to compete for the top of the league. But, will Bo's effectiveness be comprised if he has to play major minutes as the lead guard (if it's not Dorsey or some new guy TBD)? Bo and Joe just can't be average imho. If the answer to "Would Luc have scored more last season if he was free of PG duties?" is "not necessarily" then my answer is not necessarily to your question. Avery wasn't compromised by being the PG, but that was her natural position so maybe Bo's overall effectiveness could be compromised a little. If you are a PG/natural scorer, you don't have to wait to get a pass when you see an opening, you just convert.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 11, 2022 8:55:32 GMT -5
Bob Cousy, Joe Kelly, Roger Breslin, Aaron Jordan, Jave Meade, Pat Doherty, Torey Thomas, ? Apologize for the ones I omitted. Who was Colgate's PG last year? Nelly Cummings, who was second on the team in assists at only 3.4 APG? (Note: I am not advocating for HC to not have a point guard, but rather supporting the notion that it is not as important as it once was to have a "pure" pass-first PG to initiate a half-court offense.) (Note #2: Once again, we already have a PG on the roster who was recruited to play in the Mountain West out of high school. Is he our future at the position? Nobody here knows, but the coaching staff has seen him at the position exponentially more than anyone on Crossports.) Regarding Octave, when you are 6'4", maybe coaches have more options to be flexible your role on a team with multiple decent PG's. If he can play the point well and we don't pick up another one he could be the answer at that position and not get moved around like he might on other teams.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on May 11, 2022 8:57:37 GMT -5
Bob Cousy, Joe Kelly, Roger Breslin, Aaron Jordan, Jave Meade, Pat Doherty, Torey Thomas, ? Apologize for the ones I omitted. Who was Colgate's PG last year? Nelly Cummings, who was second on the team in assists at only 3.4 APG? (Note: I am not advocating for HC to not have a point guard, but rather supporting the notion that it is not as important as it once was to have a "pure" pass-first PG to initiate a half-court offense.) (Note #2: Once again, we already have a PG on the roster who was recruited to play in the Mountain West out of high school. Is he our future at the position? Nobody here knows, but the coaching staff has seen him at the position exponentially more than anyone on Crossports.) I know I have mentioned this previously, but if this staff saw Dorsey at point in practice, why did he not play the position in games, even as the backup ?
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on May 11, 2022 9:03:36 GMT -5
Who was Colgate's PG last year? Nelly Cummings, who was second on the team in assists at only 3.4 APG? (Note: I am not advocating for HC to not have a point guard, but rather supporting the notion that it is not as important as it once was to have a "pure" pass-first PG to initiate a half-court offense.) (Note #2: Once again, we already have a PG on the roster who was recruited to play in the Mountain West out of high school. Is he our future at the position? Nobody here knows, but the coaching staff has seen him at the position exponentially more than anyone on Crossports.) I know I have mentioned this previously, but if this staff saw Dorsey at point in practice, why did he not play the position in games, even as the backup ? Dunno -- maybe because he wasn't ready last year and needed additional development? Do you believe that guys can get better over the course of their career, or that they just are what they are when they enter a program?
|
|
|
Post by Tom on May 11, 2022 9:04:41 GMT -5
Bob Cousy, Joe Kelly, Roger Breslin, Aaron Jordan, Jave Meade, Pat Doherty, Torey Thomas, ? Apologize for the ones I omitted. One things all those guys have in common, they played on some fairly successful teams. In a chicken/egg scenario, do we remember these guys because of the success of their teams? or were the teams successful because they had a quality point guard? I would feel better if there was an experienced D-I point guard running the show. Maybe a combination of Bo and Nolan will get the job done, but prior to seeing that happen, I'd prefer someone who has run the show before ----------------------------------------------------- On a tangent, but not as far off as the 60's Indians. . . I had no clue who Joe Kelly was so I looked him up on the website. Because Kelly is fairly close alphabetically to Kenney, I realized that the stat database has been brought up to date for the first time in about 3 years.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on May 11, 2022 9:07:16 GMT -5
Based on last season, I have to believe that Bo will start at PG if we do not sign someone else. Dorsey as the backup.
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on May 11, 2022 9:43:07 GMT -5
Based on last season, I have to believe that Bo will start at PG if we do not sign someone else. Dorsey as the backup. as goes without saying, this is a deeply concerning scenario. hopefully bo will be as adept at playing as far out of position as austin butler did, but i have serious doubts about whether he is as versatile as the great ab.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on May 11, 2022 10:35:50 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure Bo played plenty of point guard both in high school and on the AAU circuit. That doesn’t necessarily make him a D1 point guard but it’s not like he has played center his whole life. I know he’s the guy Nelson spoke most glowingly about in terms of expecting him to take a big step forward this year.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on May 11, 2022 13:35:25 GMT -5
May 11th and no Point Guard. What's the wait? By my count, HC has 5 guards on the roster. If 2-3 can't bring the ball upcourt, even against the press, and set up the offense, we have a real problem. I do wish RJ had stayed, moreso than K Luc, but let's not make this more complicated than necessary. Back in the day, HC had a 6'7" point forward who was a great outlet against the press. They are basketball players, some of whom are used to having the ball in their hands regularly. The age of specialization has spun out of control. It has led to things like an NFL roster spot set aside for a long snapper. Isn't that what centers did for 50 years?
|
|