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Post by WCHC Sports on Apr 15, 2022 9:29:33 GMT -5
We had the PL rookie of the year, meaning we had the top "New" player to the entire conference. He transferred out. THAT is a problem that has to be solved... because if Nelson, or Smith, or Wooden, or Jesus brings in all-stars, but they don't stay, NO coach will win.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 15, 2022 9:50:58 GMT -5
Defer to others. Has the PRIMARY problem been the lack of talent or the coaches' failures to lead, motivate, inspire loyalty and do X's & O's? My bias is obvious but there are others who are more knowledgeable and would be better able to analyze the problems with HC basketball.
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Post by trimster on Apr 15, 2022 10:09:08 GMT -5
Defer to others. Has the PRIMARY problem been the lack of talent or the coaches' failures to lead, motivate, inspire loyalty and do X's & O's? My bias is obvious but obviously there are others who are more knowledgeable and would be better able to analyze the problems with HC basketball. This could be a lengthy string of replies. Where to begin.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 15, 2022 10:27:34 GMT -5
Thank you, trimster.. It's Good Friday. Many have other things on their mind. Is HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? For much of my alum life HC basketball has been painful. Of course the Blaney & Willard teams were the exceptions.
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Post by Tom on Apr 15, 2022 10:57:35 GMT -5
Is HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? I don't think so. I think many of us over hype the talent of our recruits. I don't see a lot of hype coming from athletics. Some of our recent recruits have been pretty good. Two rookie of year in last there seasons. On the other hand, we've had some big classes lately. Five freshmen in 2019-20. Eight newcomers in 2020-21 (6 frosh + 2 transfers). Five newcomers this season (4 frosh (3 scholarship/1 walkon + 1 transfer). With that kind of quantity at our level, not everyone is going to be a superstar. Some will be projects and not all projects pan out
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Post by mm67 on Apr 15, 2022 11:18:49 GMT -5
Is HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? I don't think so. I think many of us over hype the talent of our recruits. I don't see a lot of hype coming from athletics. Some of our recent recruits have been pretty good. Two rookie of year in last there seasons. On the other hand, we've had some big classes lately. Five freshmen in 2019-20. Eight newcomers in 2020-21 (6 frosh + 2 transfers). Five newcomers this season (4 frosh (3 scholarship/1 walkon + 1 transfer). With that kind of quantity at our level, not everyone is going to be a superstar. Some will be projects and not all projects pan out Thank you, Tom. You make eminent sense.
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Post by trimster on Apr 15, 2022 12:18:26 GMT -5
Thank you, trimster.. It's Good Friday. Many have other things on their minds. HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? For much of my alum life HC basketball has been painful. Of course the Blaney & Willard teams were the exceptions. I don't think so mm. Even at the low D1 level, most of these kids come to HC having been a star at the hs level or a strong supporting member of a great hs team. See the kid from Stepinac who went to BU last fall. I think his name is Chimeze. Having said that, most low level D1 recruits have a weakness, size issue, etc. that prevents them from being a mid to high major recruit. Kyrel Luc is a good example. Major talent but short. It just seems like no one since RW has been able to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
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Post by mm67 on Apr 15, 2022 12:26:01 GMT -5
Thank you, trimster.. It's Good Friday. Many have other things on their minds. HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? For much of my alum life HC basketball has been painful. Of course the Blaney & Willard teams were the exceptions. I don't think so mm. Even at the low D1 level, most of these kids come to HC having been a star at the hs level or a strong supporting member of a great hs team. See the kid from Stepinac who went to BU last fall. I think his name is Chimeze. Having said that, most low level D1 recruits have a weakness, size issue, etc. that prevents them from being a mid to high major recruit. Kyrel Luc is a good example. Major talent but short. It just seems like no one since RW has been able to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Reality check. Thank you.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 15, 2022 18:11:02 GMT -5
Thank you, trimster.. It's Good Friday. Many have other things on their minds. HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? For much of my alum life HC basketball has been painful. Of course the Blaney & Willard teams were the exceptions. I don't think so mm. Even at the low D1 level, most of these kids come to HC having been a star at the hs level or a strong supporting member of a great hs team. See the kid from Stepinac who went to BU last fall. I think his name is Chimeze. Having said that, most low level D1 recruits have a weakness, size issue, etc. that prevents them from being a mid to high major recruit. Kyrel Luc is a good example. Major talent but short. It just seems like no one since RW has been able to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Ah, the parts. Suppose, just suppose, that everyone who came to HC stayed (i.e., don't get into "well, if x came then y wouldn't have"). No good (at this point in their careers) player would be on the team over 6-5. Would cause a lot of matchup problems, but ultimately not do that well.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 15, 2022 21:59:00 GMT -5
Is HC athletics over hyping the talent of the recruits? I don't think so. I think many of us over hype the talent of our recruits. I don't see a lot of hype coming from athletics. Some of our recent recruits have been pretty good. Two rookie of year in last there seasons. On the other hand, we've had some big classes lately. Five freshmen in 2019-20. Eight newcomers in 2020-21 (6 frosh + 2 transfers). Five newcomers this season (4 frosh (3 scholarship/1 walkon + 1 transfer). With that kind of quantity at our level, not everyone is going to be a superstar. Some will be projects and not all projects pan out Gates was a rookie of the year also. So Nelson has had three current or former Rookies of the year in his three years as head coach. Lost two, kept Gates. It's unknown if Gates would have left if he didn't have to sit out if he did, but glad he will be anchoring the 2022-23 team.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 24, 2022 14:05:03 GMT -5
We return 54% of our minutes played from the prior. We returned 57% in 21-22 and just 43% in 20-21
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Post by hchoops on Apr 24, 2022 14:07:00 GMT -5
We return 54% of our minutes played from the prior. Thus far
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Post by DiMarz on Apr 24, 2022 14:33:45 GMT -5
It is what it is.......Better get use to all the transfers, looks like they are here to stay, or transfer....Times have changed, the 4 year player may be a thing of the past...and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it..except to come to grip with the new changes....I wonder if Jay Wright just got fed up with the nonsense, the chasing the transfers, wondering who he was going to loose, how to fill that spot etc..... Just my mind wandering about today...
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Post by hchoops on Apr 24, 2022 14:43:39 GMT -5
Although Wright did not lose any rotation player to the portal, I believe the overall state of college hoops; Portal, NIL, one and dones, etc. is one of the main reasons he retired now
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 10, 2022 7:51:28 GMT -5
Here’s what we have for scholarship players for next year. If the season started tomorrow, I guess either Bo or Dorsey would be the point guard. Walk-on Tomer Oron will be a soph and I think he’s a point. No idea if he can work his way into the rotation. By Position: PG ? Wings Montgomery, Dorsey, Octave, Lewis, Batchelder, Kirkwood Bigs Gates, Kenney, Coulibaly, Rabinovich, WilbarBy Roster Class (some Sophs and Jrs may have an extra year): Senior (1): Gates Junior (4): Dorsey, Rabinovich, Montgomery, Coulbaly Soph (3): Octave, Lewis, Kenney Frosh (2): Batchelder, Kirkwood Absent the ability to get studs, I’d take the best Point guard we can get and hold the other two scholarships for next year to give us a three person class entering in 2023. Adding Wilbar in bold above. Do we know if he can 1) play right away and 2) is he a soph or junior? Two scholarships left for next season.
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Post by HC92 on May 10, 2022 11:09:07 GMT -5
Here’s what we have for scholarship players for next year. If the season started tomorrow, I guess either Bo or Dorsey would be the point guard. Walk-on Tomer Oron will be a soph and I think he’s a point. No idea if he can work his way into the rotation. By Position: PG ? Wings Montgomery, Dorsey, Octave, Lewis, Batchelder, Kirkwood Bigs Gates, Kenney, Coulibaly, Rabinovich, WilbarBy Roster Class (some Sophs and Jrs may have an extra year): Senior (1): Gates Junior (4): Dorsey, Rabinovich, Montgomery, Coulbaly Soph (3): Octave, Lewis, Kenney Frosh (2): Batchelder, Kirkwood Absent the ability to get studs, I’d take the best Point guard we can get and hold the other two scholarships for next year to give us a three person class entering in 2023. Adding Wilbar in bold above. Do we know if he can 1) play right away and 2) is he a soph or junior? Two scholarships left for next season. Don’t think we know either at this point. He’d need a waiver to play right away given that he has already transferred once. As for how many years left, he’s only played 1 season that counts so he has three years of eligibility but would need another waiver to spend 6 years playing 4 that count.
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Post by HC92 on May 10, 2022 11:10:14 GMT -5
We might have to move Dorsey and/or Bo into the PG group above if we don’t find someone else ready to play PG at the D1 level soon.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 10, 2022 11:15:33 GMT -5
We might have to move Dorsey and/or Bo into the PG group above if we don’t find someone else ready to play PG at the D1 level soon. BBC (below) told us that Dorsey is our guy at PG. Will he have a backup?
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 10, 2022 11:38:42 GMT -5
We might have to move Dorsey and/or Bo into the PG group above if we don’t find someone else ready to play PG at the D1 level soon. BBC (below) told us that Dorsey is our guy at PG. Will he have a backup? Fake news! I said he MAY be the guy Nelson is planning around for PG next year. Unlike your crew, I don’t have unlimited access to practices and recruiting evaluations to know how poorly everything is going.
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Post by longsuffering on May 10, 2022 11:54:37 GMT -5
Coach Schertz's cutting comment (pun intended) might aid Simon's waiver request. He broke coach speak code when he said Wilbar had been in his system for three years and hadn't picked it up. Candor can be refreshing but it could also help Wilbar in this situation.
A coach recruits a kid to one college then recruits him to a second college obviously indicating he felt the kid "got it" then criticizes him on the way out the door saying he didn't "get it" after three years of the student putting his faith in the coach to teach him "it."
That paints Simon as less frivolous than other serial transferees who just move on from ambition or impatience. He is a victim in some sense of the only coach he has had. I don't hold his NBA goal against him. It's unlikely, but let him adjust his goals at his own pace.
I would stamp his waiver request to play this season "approved" if I had a stamp.
I'd hope he could get his degree in five years and play his last season as a grad transfer but if he wants to stay at HC into his mid twenties, I'd approve that sixth year here also, due to Coach Schertz making him a disposable student athlete after three years in his program.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 10, 2022 11:58:07 GMT -5
BBC (below) told us that Dorsey is our guy at PG. Will he have a backup? Fake news! I said he MAY be the guy Nelson is planning around for PG next year. Unlike your crew, I don’t have unlimited access to practices and recruiting evaluations to know how poorly everything is going. Got it. As the roster stands today, Dorsey is the starting PG and his backup is...? Even if Nelson lands a PG from the portal, are we even sure he'd be capable of handling the duties of a starting PG? It's May going into Nelson's fourth season and we don't have a PG on the roster. Nice!
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 10, 2022 14:16:50 GMT -5
Back to the topic of the thread, instead of the "glass is 99% empty" view that has become so prevalent from the mob, IMHO Nelson and staff have done a really nice job pulling together the group of new arrivals for next year:
Batchelder (Combo/SG) -- IMHO top newcomer, much-needed shooter/scorer, if Dorsey smaller size will be easier to work around as SG Octave (Wing) -- Potential immediate starter, legit D1 player w/ floor of 7-8th guy off bench, locked into HC for 3 years Kirkwood (Wing) -- Potential late bloomer with high ceiling (as well as low floor, obviously), great pedigree - hopefully understands value of HC education vs transfer portal Wilbar (Almost 6'12) - Floor of 3rd/4th big, ceiling of a difference-making big in the PL, locked into HC for 2-3 years
Now we need a PG and then can go for most talented player available if we want to use the 13th scholarship (probably wise to do given the transfer epidemic).
There are certainly a number of things that Nelson can be criticized for based on the team's performance in his first 2.5 seasons, but roster building is not one of them.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 10, 2022 14:25:59 GMT -5
There are certainly a number of things that Nelson can be criticized for based on the team's performance in his first 2.5 seasons, but roster building is not one of them. You can't be serious. We don't have a legitimate big man and point guard on the roster, but other than that the roster he has pieced together is great.
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Post by hchoops on May 10, 2022 14:33:58 GMT -5
How about roster losing ? If you give him credit for building, should you not give him at least some blame for players transferring ?
You say Octave is locked in for 3 years. Could he not graduate in two ? You also write that Octave is a potential starter, yet you think Batch is the top newcomer. Will they both start ? What about Kirkwood’s game gives him a high ceiling ? What of Wilbar’s game gives him the ceiling of a difference maker in the PL ?
This sounds like that glass you mention is 99% full. With no point guard.
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Post by bringbackcaro on May 10, 2022 14:53:51 GMT -5
There are certainly a number of things that Nelson can be criticized for based on the team's performance in his first 2.5 seasons, but roster building is not one of them. You can't be serious. We don't have a legitimate big man and point guard on the roster, but other than that the roster he has pieced together is great. He built the roster to have a Soph PG & Junior PG next year, but they both transferred. Did you want him to have 4 PGs on the roster last year to anticipate the potential of transfers? Was he supposed to anticipate that RJ would get hurt and then make a boneheaded decision to transfer to Charleston Southern? Should he have just not recruited Luc if he had the potential to be the PL ROY and then transfer to the highest bidder? I would imagine the staff is actively working to fill out the roster with a PG or two. If the roster looks the same as it does now in December, I would disagree with putting all of our eggs in Nolan Dorsey's basket at that position.
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