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Post by hcpride on Nov 21, 2023 9:27:49 GMT -5
Any insight as to what Chesney's total comp is at HC? I honestly have no clue. I know many FBS programs are in the $3M range. How far off are we? Different universe/galaxy from 3M. (Please correct me if you have an idea but it’s more like 300K-ish.)
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 9:29:45 GMT -5
The Orange Sludge was playing Princeton. Now, some may call me a hypocrite, but for all of my loudness at games I can only recall 1 time when I yelled AT a PLAYER: when the Lafayette kid had John Hurley in a headlock and dragged him across the floor. These Cuse ADULT subhumans were yelling all kinds of nasty stuff at the Princeton kids, with every four letter word you could imagine. Ushers/Security all around, but did nothing - apparently SOP for them. That left a lasting impression with me, and made Vermont's win a year or two later especially sweet. The "fans" were up to their old tricks in that game as well, until reality set in. Then, of course, they turned their nastiness on to their own players. Geez, I really hope Ches does not go there, or any of the players. I just don't think I could root for them in any way, shape or form. I recall vividly your posting about this Vermont upset over the Orange and your comments about the SU fans at the time. It is somewhat reassuring that they hadn't changed since my days in Syracuse. A little anecdote about my experience. After my experience with the foul-mouthed orange throwers in the demi-dome talking to my work mates afterwards, their defense was "that's because those students and fans are from downstate, not from around here. We have a lot of kids from Long Island and New York City that go here."
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 9:34:40 GMT -5
$300,000?? You have got to be kidding me. If that's true, then for Chesney's sake please go get it elsewhere my man!! Shame on HC for being so unbelievably shortsighted.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 9:36:35 GMT -5
It's on the IRS non-profit 990 forms but there is a 2 year lag in reporting. I and others periodically post the relevant information. Non-profits have to report salaries and compensation for all officers (Jesuits were always $0 for past presidents ) and executives and believe top 10 highest employees. Oftentimes the football coach didn't even make the list but basketball coach? Always! And, no, I do not agree that with a $1 B +/- endowment, we can pay a lot more because much of the endowment is funneled to specific things. Phreek is our resident expert on the subject.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 21, 2023 9:38:27 GMT -5
Ches and staff are now compensated well for FCS. Top 10-20% across the board. The issue is FCS more broadly just pays way less than most FBS esp P4. It’s not an HC issue, it’s just the reality of FCS. It’s not as low as stated above but P4 FBS is family tree changing money for ANY FCS coach.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 21, 2023 9:40:11 GMT -5
It's on the IRS non-profit 990 forms but there is a 2 year lag in reporting. I and others periodically post the relevant information. Non-profits have to report salaries and compensation for all officers (Jesuits were always $0 for past presidents ) and executives and believe top 10 highest employees. Oftentimes the football coach didn't even make the list but basketball coach? Always! And, no, I do not agree that with a $1 B +/- endowment, we can pay a lot more because much of the endowment is funneled to specific things. Phreek is our resident expert on the subject. Several Ivies and a few other have endowed Head coaching positions. We are not there yet.
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 9:40:26 GMT -5
Well, as Kit Hughes stated to me, they are taking a hard look at legacy processes. I don't have any more information than that, but this has to be included. Clearly, so very clearly, HC can afford to do what it wants to do. Retaining Chesney is a choice. They either want him or they don't. There will be no additional financial constraints should they decide to pay up for him. If they don't, there is real risk that we slide back into mediocrity.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 21, 2023 9:45:34 GMT -5
NEFJ guys (who know the program fairly well) had a good segment on it last night “End of an era at HC?” Starts in the 18th minute, right after the BC segment. I hope Sarianides’ intuition is the correct one. x.com/newftbj/status/1726769128013451757?s=20
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 21, 2023 9:52:27 GMT -5
I have no inside word but if forced to guess I would guess that Coach Chesney was making $250 to $300K before we restructured his contract and bumped him up significantly to $500K.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 9:54:18 GMT -5
Go here for the report 7/1/2021 to 6/30/2022 and scroll to page 47: beta.candid.org/profile/6822118You might be interested: Brett Nelson: base salary, $339,817; bonus, $6,800 (because he won a game maybe?!); total comp $395,225 Marcus Blossom: base salary, $179,050; bonus, $9,800; total comp, $229,597 Bob Chesney: base salary, $185,961; bonus, $41,100; total comp, $282,909 You can see Vince Rougeau's salary and comp but likely a partial year and highest compensated was the Finance/Treasurer VP. Carmody made more and from memory all our basketball coaches made more than football coaches, close to double. Would anyone in their right mind pay Nelson more than Chesney? Now,, a large caveat: I believe this does not reflect BC's renegotiated contract but I'd be willing to bet he still doesn't make what Nelson made. And DP likely comes in making more than BC but that sits a lot better with me. Long answer to tell you that we are not and will never be close to paying BC $3 Million.
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 10:01:42 GMT -5
So pay him a million. Any argument to the contrary just doesn't really hold water. They can easily afford it. In fact, the CFO/Treasurer VP will never notice. It's a blip on the budget. We should never pay at the FBS level, but certainly we can afford to be a top 5 paying FCS job. No doubt in my mind. If you commit to winning, you have to commit for real.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 10:07:34 GMT -5
Hopefully my final thought and a replay of what I've posted a number of times in the past. Money is not going to keep Bob Chesney at Holy Cross. If he stays, it will be because of many ancillary benefits. In no particular order: + He loves the school and its mission + He and has family have lived in Worcester for many years and this is likely the only place his young children know + He won't want to uproot the kids unless he absolutely think its for a better place + His wife has an excellent job which diminishes his need to make a lot more money + He's a loyal guy; to his family, friends, players + He is ambitious (with a small "a"); he had/has a goal of gaining a national championship and likely believes he can still get that at Holy Cross + Recall the story that when offered the Holy Cross job that he asked to reduce his incoming salary in order to better compensate his assistant coaches. + Yeah, 5 consecutive league championships but based on my short conversation with him, I think he believes he can get that national championship next season and he'd be a lot more attractive coaching candidate with that on his resume and his kids would be a year older. + Maybe other things but these are the ones that come immediately to mind (maybe I should send this list to him!!! ) Just my two cents.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 21, 2023 10:07:45 GMT -5
So pay him a million. Any argument to the contrary just doesn't really hold water. They can easily afford it. In fact, the CFO/Treasurer VP will never notice. It's a blip on the budget. We should never pay at the FBS level, but certainly we can afford to be a top 5 paying FCS job. No doubt in my mind. If you commit to winning, you have to commit for real. Ehh, I don't think that's a good idea. Holy Cross isn't going to pay so far above what the market dictates for FCS head coaches. North Dakota State has been the preeminent program in the FCS for quite some time now. Here's what they pay Matt Entz -- a base salary of $380,000 in his first year. If Entz meets every performance bonus, which tops out at $44,500, he could make $419,500 next season.Villanova's Mark Ferrante makes an annual base salary of $332,405. It would be fiscally irresponsible to pay Chesney $1mm annually.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 21, 2023 10:08:30 GMT -5
Unless there is $3 m+ on the table I just don't see him leaving for Syracuse. It is no longer a good job like it was in the 60s
The next move for Coach needs to be the right school and program so he can take another step in five years. As somebody posted earlier, Syracuse is a place where coaching careers end.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 21, 2023 10:10:31 GMT -5
Hopefully my final thought and a replay of what I've posted a number of times in the past. Money is not going to keep Bob Chesney at Holy Cross. If he stays, it will be because of many ancillary benefits. In no particular order: + He loves the school and its mission + He and has family have lived in Worcester for many years and this is likely the only place his young children know + He won't want to uproot the kids unless he absolutely think its for a better place + His wife has an excellent job which diminishes his need to make a lot more money + He's a loyal guy; to his family, friends, players + He is ambitious (with a small "a"); he had/has a goal of gaining a national championship and likely believes he can still get that at Holy Cross + Recall the story that when offered the Holy Cross job that he asked to reduce his incoming salary in order to better compensate his assistant coaches. + Yeah, 5 consecutive league championships but based on my short conversation with him, I think he believes he can get that national championship next season and he's be a lot more attractive coaching candidate with that on his resume and his kids would be a year older. + Maybe other things but these are the ones that come immediately to mind (maybe I should send this list to him!!! ) Just my two cents. Excellent points, 1970. Another thing -- based on what I've come to learn about him, I don't think Chesney is all that interested in having to deal with the headaches that come with running a big time college football program (NIL, not being able to recruit "Holy Cross" kind of kids, over-the-top boosters, off the field issues that invariably come with P5 programs, etc.).
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 10:13:02 GMT -5
Oh, not specific to Bob C, but if you make $3M and live in Syracuse, what are you going to spend it on? Maybe buy the Syracuse Chiefs so you can compete with the WooSox directly?
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 10:13:10 GMT -5
OK, fair points, but we all know money talks. So, pay him at least what they pay the North Dakota coach. It's far more expensive to live in Massachusetts than it is in North Dakota. And, put significant performance bonuses in the contract. Give him a million dollar bonus if we win the national championship.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 21, 2023 10:17:42 GMT -5
OK, fair points, but we all know money talks. So, pay him at least what they pay the North Dakota coach. It's far more expensive to live in Massachusetts than it is in North Dakota. And, put significant performance bonuses in the contract. Give him a million dollar bonus if we win the national championship. The VAST (!!) difference in pay between mid-FCS and mid-P5 catches some fans unawares. And explains some things regarding moves.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 21, 2023 10:18:53 GMT -5
Having gotten the same vibes from a number of communications with Bob, I think the guy loves to COACH, not be a CEO-type .In fact, you don't have to have even met him. Take a look at him pre-game, during the game and after a game how he interacts with his players. Hugs, pats on the back, not just once or twice, it's all the time. Having heard him at practice huddles and how he deals with his players and coaches, this just isn't a guy who wants to direct a team from afar. He's a hands-on guy and not sure that happens at Syracuse. I've said, if he goes anywhere, it would likely be a BC with the same Jesuit experience, more money and not have to move. My gut tells me that that's where he'd go when the time is right. Oh, and yes, he likes the alums at Holy Cross and wild about 90-wide and what it can do for his players. You know, "at Holy Cross you can have it all" and "we don't look at 4 years but 40 years." He believes this down to his toes. (Bob, please don't make me look like a fool and leave tomorrow! )
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 10:22:56 GMT -5
Word on the street is that BC is looking at Dobbs.
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Post by drjack on Nov 21, 2023 10:24:46 GMT -5
What a disaster the Blossom/Nelson duo turned out to be.
But yeah, we're not keeping Chesney here with money, especially once we're up against P5 schools (really, G5 too but I guess I can see a world where we pay on the lower end of the FBS scale.)
That said, we probably have to look at coaching salaries if we want to bring back someone like Chris Smith who's probably making more with the Giants than Chesney makes right now. I'm sure Paulsen has a nice contract number as well, but if we want to keep football where it's at, the HC will probably need to be at least on par with our MBB coach
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Post by drjack on Nov 21, 2023 10:25:53 GMT -5
Word on the street is that BC is looking at Dobbs. I wouldn't hate this. We don't play em next year and I can get free tickets to BC home games through a neighbor who works in the department.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 21, 2023 10:28:25 GMT -5
Word on the street is that BC is looking at Dobbs. They’d be crazy not too. DePalma graduates. I think they’ll have to contend with some Big 10 schools however.
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Post by hc1996 on Nov 21, 2023 10:28:27 GMT -5
Totally agree. Kit Hughes needs to take a hard look at this. And, I hear what everyone is saying, but if we hear Chesney is leaving for a larger program, everything everyone says is kinda thrown out. Based on everything you're saying, the only other logical move would be to an Ivy. I assume they pay more and recruit similar student-athletes. BC is no different than the other ACC schools. Athlete-students. So, if he leaves, it was about money. Period.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 21, 2023 10:29:31 GMT -5
OK, fair points, but we all know money talks. So, pay him at least what they pay the North Dakota coach. It's far more expensive to live in Massachusetts than it is in North Dakota. And, put significant performance bonuses in the contract. Give him a million dollar bonus if we win the national championship. If we pay $700k+ it will put Chesney in 1-2-3 position for compensation in the FCS We are a special school, seeking excellence in many areas, now pay for it and let's put the comp issue for successful coaches to rest. Remember this is the payout for one buy game against the right teams
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