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Post by hcpride on Sept 14, 2018 10:33:42 GMT -5
The only "humiliation" I see in FBS/FCS matchups comes when the FCS team wins (check the article posted by Moose) or when the FCS team clearly stops trying. Neither happened at BC, so I am not sure why people keep using that word. Plus, EVERY football game has injury potential and HC seemed to come through with three players injured - hopefully not too seriously. That is not much different than some FCS games. Remember when HC lost one of our biggest linemen for the season to a cutback block by a Georgetown athlete? Slightly different topic, but did you see the HC v Yale game last year as a humiliation? (I am trying to see if there is any level of one-sided defeat that lends itself to a description of it as a humiliation in some quarters.)
I wouldn't say BC stopped trying altogether (they had huddles, wore their uniforms properly, used 11 players, ran plays, tried to gain yards....but it was certainly not close to their full effort given the yanking of the best offensive players midway thru the first quarter, their deep dive into the bench/redshirt cadre, and play selection. HC certainly tried also although they prudently managed their own personnel rotation/play calling differently than they would have in a competitive game.)
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Post by hcpride on Sept 14, 2018 10:36:11 GMT -5
I'd say the injury potential and humiliation potential of a PL FCS team playing a P-5 team makes the matchup a bad idea as a threshold matter. No matter the money (if any) or national exposure.
(I can watch entertaining and competitive Alabama, Ole Miss and UM games without bringing HC into the mix.)
Do you really believe that there is an increased injury risk playing BC or any other P5 team over any other game? Do I think the risk of injury (to quarterbacks and others) is greater when the other team (including the defensive line and linebackers) is substantially bigger, faster and stronger than the opposition? The announcers for the game (one of whom was a former pro BTW) certainly thought so.
(They did not suggest injuries did not occur where opponents are more evenly matched.)
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 10:39:06 GMT -5
hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 14, 2018 10:42:50 GMT -5
hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole. Clearly the guy who has actually been in a foxhole. BTW we call them fighting positions now.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 10:45:36 GMT -5
hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole. Clearly the guy who has actually been in a foxhole. BTW we call them fighting positions now. OK - clearly the guy you don't want on your football team. Better?
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 14, 2018 11:02:06 GMT -5
Me! Me! ME! (picture student raising his hand wildly in classroom) I know the answer!!! Don Matheney from Ohio who left HC and played at Ohio State, admittedly not as a starter. He was an anchor at DT weighing in at 305 lbs. +/-. I was pretty good friends with his family and his girlfriend who drove from Ohio for every game. He got badly injured on a cheap shot. Injuries happen in football games, many times without any contact at all. Foot caught in the turf, twisting to make a cut. But playing BC is not about the size differential of players. If a 180 lb HC player hit a 230 lb BC player in the helmet, the BC player would get hurt.
"Humiliation" was probably against Yale last year and Fordham at Yankee Stadium. We got payback for the latter game down (again) in the Bronx and my prediction is we will get payback tomorrow for Yale. Having watched every game the last few years either in person or TV/internet and almost every game for the last 20 years, while taking nothing away from Yale, our team figuratively never got off the bus at the Yale Bowl. Maybe they would have beaten us if both we and they played a good game. We were just not there mentally. That is humiliating. On the reverse side of the coin, this same team destroyed UNH and, we can expect that even though they may be having a down year, they will be looking to atone for their loss in Fitton when we play in Durham later this season.
Losing 62-14 to BC is not humiliating unless our players felt like they didn't give their best effort. But from what I saw, they never gave up and did their best and blocking 2 punts (I don't care if it was BC's 1st or 3rd string players, our guys who did it were true freshmen who a year ago were in high school) for TDs.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 12:05:06 GMT -5
I wish this thread would die. But as moose1970 apparently does not want it to and mm67 wants "facts" and not "assertions," here is my attempt at the former (based mostly on the latter): Fact: More people were aware of the BC-HC than any other HC game since God knows when. That is good. Evidence: Obvious. Fact: I would rather watch HC play a P5 team than any other game on the scedhule - win or loss. - Evidence: I undertook a deep examination of my mind on Sept. 14, 2018. Fact: Players want to play in these games. Evidence: Multiple interviews, articles, etc. Fact: Recruits want to play in these games. Evidence: They are not pussies; if they were, we don't want them as recruits/commitments/players. I say we play anybody that gets us more exposure - I live in a different region than NE; this was the first week since the Men's BB run, that people have come up to me and mentioned a HC Game.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 12:06:21 GMT -5
hey, don't blame me. i'm just returning serve here!!!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 14, 2018 12:35:41 GMT -5
The matter of an increased likelihood of injury is puzzling. Does an extra, say, 10 pounds per player (a 230 pound linebacker instead of a 220 pounder) and an extra 2/10 of a second in 40 yard speed (4.8 versus 5.0) generate that much more concussive force? The HC guy is travelling 16.4 MPH while the bc guy is going 17.0 MPH.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 14, 2018 12:49:42 GMT -5
The matter of an increased likelihood of injury is puzzling. Does an extra, say, 10 pounds per player (a 230 pound linebacker instead of a 220 pounder) and an extra 2/10 of a second in 40 yard speed (4.8 versus 5.0) generate that much more concussive force? The HC guy is travelling 16.4 MPH while the bc guy is going 17.0 MPH. In the event your comment is in response to my earlier exchange to inhogsigno:
inhocsigno: Do you really believe that there is an increased injury risk playing BC or any other P5 team over any other game?
HCPride: Do I think the risk of injury (to quarterbacks and others) is greater when the other team (including the defensive line and linebackers) is substantially bigger, faster and stronger than the opposition? The announcers for the game (one of whom was a former pro BTW) certainly thought so.
(They did not suggest injuries did not occur where opponents are more evenly matched.)
At the risk of stating the obvious, I am not sure you have fully captured the physical differences between a quarterback and a P5 defensive end or linebacker. (The idea being that the P5 lineman and linebacker may leverage the bigger, faster, stronger attributes to get a shot at the QB, for example. this is not to say QBs are unscathed during all other types of games.)
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 14:18:55 GMT -5
I am willing to say there is no appreciable greater risk of receiving an injury in one P5 game than any other Division I (FBS or FCS) game. Have you ever played on Towson's old turf?
From my observation: mm76, moose and Hcpride-less (collectively, the "Fearful") are essentially against these games because they are either embarrassing or will cause injury to our players. I cannot agree. If a player at HC tells a coach he does not want to play these games because of those two reasons, or any other reason, he should not be playing football, and he especially should not be playing at the FCS level. I guarantee there is not one kid on the team who feels as the Fearful do.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 14, 2018 14:55:51 GMT -5
The matter of an increased likelihood of injury is puzzling. Does an extra, say, 10 pounds per player (a 230 pound linebacker instead of a 220 pounder) and an extra 2/10 of a second in 40 yard speed (4.8 versus 5.0) generate that much more concussive force? The HC guy is travelling 16.4 MPH while the bc guy is going 17.0 MPH. Kinetic energy is a combination of mass (weight) and speed, as measured in joules. HC DB weighing 95 kg running at 0. 76 meters per second has a kinetic energy of 27.436 joules BC WR weighing 97 kg running at 0.78 m/sec = 29.507 joules Dillon running at 0.78 m/sec = 36.504 joules I don't think there is a material difference in the effects of an impact between the DB and the WB, IMO, there would be an advantage to Dillon in the event of a tackle, but that would be the case if the DB exemplar was playing for HC, Wake, or Clemson. However, when one complicates the calculation by factoring in the elasticity or inelasticity of momentum, it becomes trickier. Dillons mass is not equally distributed, so if one tackled his legs, he would have less mass there, and fewer joules of energy. At least, I think that's the way it works.
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Post by joe on Sept 14, 2018 15:19:22 GMT -5
Kinetic energy is a combination of mass (weight) and speed, as measured in joules. HC DB weighing 95 kg running at 0. 76 meters per second has a kinetic energy of 27.436 joules BC WR weighing 97 kg running at 0.78 m/sec = 29.507 joules Dillon running at 0.78 m/sec = 36.504 joules This is absurdist b******t.
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Post by dharry13 on Sept 14, 2018 15:20:00 GMT -5
We on to Yale!
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 15:59:07 GMT -5
inhocsigno, I suggest that you refrain from characterizing by name calling as it does not advance your point of view among other things. Please cool down, avoid the overheated rhetoric. Let me remind you that neither you nor I nor any of us decide HC's scheduling policy. We are engaged merely in discourse based on our love of alma mater. Actually, I only questioned if there was anyone who would admit that he/she did not know about the increased likelihood of injury. So far although no one has established that he/she knows other than giving an opinion , no one has admitted that they don't know. I don't know if there is an increased likelihood of injury, and based on your post neither do you. My concerns in opposition to HC playing a P5 BCS team have been amply laid out in earlier posts and if you had read my posts you would have understood that fear was not mentioned. Stay well fellow alum. LoveHC ps it's mm67 Obviously, tone is not conveyed well online as I am neither overheated or in need of a cool down. I do, however, think that your concerns/positions re playing P5 teams are not valid. I find the objection to playing football games against better opponents out of fear of injury or losing too bad to be pathetic. Thus, I called you fearful. Obviously, I don't know you or the rest of the no-P5 cabal personally - I am sure you are all gentlemen with fine intentions - but I find your objections to the P5 games antithetical to the soul of the game of football. To partially quote Teddy: "...who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Don't be cold and timid mm67, be a Crusader.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 14, 2018 16:16:22 GMT -5
I am willing to say there is no appreciable greater risk of receiving an injury in one P5 game than any other Division I (FBS or FCS) game. Have you ever played on Towson's old turf? From my observation: mm76, moose and Hcpride-less (collectively, the "Fearful") are essentially against these games because they are either embarrassing or will cause injury to our players. I cannot agree. If a player at HC tells a coach he does not want to play these games because of those two reasons, or any other reason, he should not be playing football, and he especially should not be playing at the FCS level. I guarantee there is not one kid on the team who feels as the Fearful do. Your 'fearful' name calling is about as accurate as your fumbling foxhole insult earlier in the thread: I am afraid I triggered you on this exchange: inhocsigno: Do you really believe that there is an increased injury risk playing BC or any other P5 team over any other game? HCPride: Do I think the risk of injury (to quarterbacks and others) is greater when the other team (including the defensive line and linebackers) is substantially bigger, faster and stronger than the opposition? The announcers for the game (one of whom was a former pro BTW) certainly thought so. (They did not suggest injuries did not occur where opponents are more evenly matched.) inhocsigno: hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole HCPride: Clearly the guy who has actually been in a foxhole. BTW we call them fighting positions now.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 14, 2018 16:37:03 GMT -5
How many joules will the Yale RBs have tomorrow?
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 16:41:13 GMT -5
I am willing to say there is no appreciable greater risk of receiving an injury in one P5 game than any other Division I (FBS or FCS) game. Have you ever played on Towson's old turf? From my observation: mm76, moose and Hcpride-less (collectively, the "Fearful") are essentially against these games because they are either embarrassing or will cause injury to our players. I cannot agree. If a player at HC tells a coach he does not want to play these games because of those two reasons, or any other reason, he should not be playing football, and he especially should not be playing at the FCS level. I guarantee there is not one kid on the team who feels as the Fearful do. Your 'fearful' name calling is about as accurate as your fumbling foxhole insult earlier in the thread: I am afraid I triggered you on this exchange: inhocsigno: Do you really believe that there is an increased injury risk playing BC or any other P5 team over any other game? HCPride: Do I think the risk of injury (to quarterbacks and others) is greater when the other team (including the defensive line and linebackers) is substantially bigger, faster and stronger than the opposition? The announcers for the game (one of whom was a former pro BTW) certainly thought so. (They did not suggest injuries did not occur where opponents are more evenly matched.) inhocsigno: hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole HCPride: Clearly the guy who has actually been in a foxhole. BTW we call them fighting positions now. Again - not triggered. See above. Your reference to your military experience (which I would have no reason to know) as some fait accompli as the invalidity of my figure of speech is nothing short of weak. Your only real position re this issue is that HC should not play P5 teams because they will lose bad or get hurt. Am I missing something? In my book, that is being fearful. Accordingly, I would not want you on my team playing a game of football. If you think that everyone that uses the old "foxhole" figure of speech is fumbling and insulting, I would, without respect, say you are being self-righteous and using your service to try to reinforce your incorrect position; so regardless of your "fighting position", you are being an asshat. As to injuries - these are young men, all of which are big, strong, fast, or some combination of the three, and they can handle the risk of playing against teams that have more players with such combinations. This is still college football, not HC playing a NFL team, or a team of superheroes.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 17:05:41 GMT -5
Kinetic energy is a combination of mass (weight) and speed, as measured in joules. HC DB weighing 95 kg running at 0. 76 meters per second has a kinetic energy of 27.436 joules BC WR weighing 97 kg running at 0.78 m/sec = 29.507 joules Dillon running at 0.78 m/sec = 36.504 joules This is absurdist b******t.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 17:12:29 GMT -5
agreed. no one on the face of this earth hit harder than Dick Giardi (RIP) listed at 5'9", 200 lbs. he truly earned his nick name "mad dog". your "stats" are useless.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 17:15:29 GMT -5
Your 'fearful' name calling is about as accurate as your fumbling foxhole insult earlier in the thread: I am afraid I triggered you on this exchange: inhocsigno: Do you really believe that there is an increased injury risk playing BC or any other P5 team over any other game? HCPride: Do I think the risk of injury (to quarterbacks and others) is greater when the other team (including the defensive line and linebackers) is substantially bigger, faster and stronger than the opposition? The announcers for the game (one of whom was a former pro BTW) certainly thought so. (They did not suggest injuries did not occur where opponents are more evenly matched.) inhocsigno: hcpride - clearly a guy you don't want in your foxhole HCPride: Clearly the guy who has actually been in a foxhole. BTW we call them fighting positions now. Again - not triggered. See above. Your reference to your military experience (which I would have no reason to know) as some fait accompli as the invalidity of my figure of speech is nothing short of weak. Your only real position re this issue is that HC should not play P5 teams because they will lose bad or get hurt. Am I missing something? In my book, that is being fearful. Accordingly, I would not want you on my team playing a game of football. If you think that everyone that uses the old "foxhole" figure of speech is fumbling and insulting, I would, without respect, say you are being self-righteous and using your service to try to reinforce your incorrect position; so regardless of your "fighting position", you are being an asshat. As to injuries - these are young men, all of which are big, strong, fast, or some combination of the three, and they can handle the risk of playing against teams that have more players with such combinations. This is still college football, not HC playing a NFL team, or a team of superheroes.
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Post by moose1970 on Sept 14, 2018 17:24:56 GMT -5
i played football for HC in games against both BC and Syracuse. neither i or any teammate asked to be pulled from the game or not want to play. we played those games with pride.
your comments are beneath contempt!
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 14, 2018 17:26:56 GMT -5
Moose, Please accept my apologies. After my toxic first post, I have come to like and respect what you say. Keep posting, please.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 14, 2018 17:29:42 GMT -5
In ho signo. Fearful? Pathetic? Look pal I played football in hs and I don't take kindly to name calling by you. Do you understand me? Can you read? I will repeat in simple language so that you can understand . As I explained, young man, I never mentioned fear in my opposition to HC playing P5 BCS teams. Fear was your invention not mine.I'm glad that you readTR's famous "Man in the Arena." Obviously you do not have the ability to engage in intelligent discourse without resorting to name calling, the lowest form of argumentation. Now stop it and grow up. I remain your fellow alum. Love HC Luckily, I can read. I apologize - I did not know you played football in high school (probably in the Northeast) in the late 50's and early 60's. I understand your position now that I understand your experiences with non-diverse competition and towering 200 lb lineman. Please accept my humblest apologies at calling you fearful and your arguments pathetic. I should have simply said that you are ignorant to the realities of the post-modern world of college football.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 14, 2018 17:32:18 GMT -5
BEAT YALE!
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