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Post by sarasota on Nov 18, 2016 10:09:23 GMT -5
Based on the reasoning in my prior posts, we are now set up for disaster in the seasons following next season. ADNP should have let CTG go now, bring in a new head coach, not allow PP to be the lead QB next year, let the new coach settle in, develop our QB of the future. In effect, we would be "sacrificing" next season for the sake of the long term. Instead, ADNP has done the shortsighted--and easy--thing. This is ADNP's first blunder--a huge one--along with scheduling ridiculous opponents in the future.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 18, 2016 10:11:09 GMT -5
Notice how the wording doesn't directly state "CTG will return as coach", yet it's obvious that the intent of the letter is to put to rest questions of whether he was.
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Post by gks on Nov 18, 2016 10:17:59 GMT -5
Why are people complaining about next year's schedule? For years it was play New England teams...we hate PL teams. Next four schedules are great. Stop complaining and enjoy some football.
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 18, 2016 10:21:57 GMT -5
Based on the reasoning in my prior posts, we are now set up for disaster in the seasons following next season. ADNP should have let CTG go now, bring in a new head coach, not allow PP to be the lead QB next year, let the new coach settle in, develop our QB of the future. In effect, we would be "sacrificing" next season for the sake of the long term. Instead, ADNP has done the shortsighted--and easy--thing. This is ADNP's first blunder--a huge one--along with scheduling ridiculous opponents in the future. Sarasota, I can appreciate you sticking to your guns, but I really question your reasoning. Indeed, I think it is ridiculous. You play the best players available at that given time. PERIOD. Having the 5th year players back gives us a better chance to win next year. Wins lead to more wins because: (1) team attitude; (2) better recruits; and (3) fan/booster support increases. Your position also assumes that players will not get better at practice, learning from better players, etc. Playing a second string player because he is going to be on the roster longer than first string player is antithetical to the goal of rebuilding a first class FCS PROGRAM. Your references are obviously to Pujols. If Wade or any other QB can beat him out, then they deserve to play. However, based on what I saw, the present QB's on the roster are far behind him in skill. You play to win every game and he gives us the best chance to win. Under your rationale, you would just play freshman because they are going to be on the roster for the BC, Syracuse game, etc.
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Post by gks on Nov 18, 2016 10:24:17 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks playing Pujals next year will hurt the team should switch to watching soccer. Crazy. He would start at probably half of the FBS schools out there....definitely at BC and UConn.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 18, 2016 10:29:40 GMT -5
inhoc- You are not thinking through carefully enough what our situation is going to be in the seasons following next season and how the picture could have been a lot brighter if we had followed a different path now. This decision is unmitigated disaster.
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Post by rickii on Nov 18, 2016 10:37:11 GMT -5
That worked....thanks PP.
Very weird and very curious decision. Frankly, this doesn't jive with all the construction and lipstick Pine has been spearheading on the football program. IMO, this has set us back. And if we again underperform next season, how does Pine pull the trigger after signing a letter with this kind of verbage ? And what then prospective new guy, after looking at the on-coming OOC slate, is gonna willingly step in with no rebuilding year to install his plan ? Not good.
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 18, 2016 10:38:26 GMT -5
I got the letter, as well. I presume it was because I am a donor, or perhaps because I attended the game at Yankee Stadium. Here is a link to the website, which has a copy of the letter, that makes it easier to read: college.jumpforward.com/MailSystemWebView.aspx?c=397108-2055-7190-75582805 I applaud them for making a decision, and getting out ahead of this with such an announcement. I am encouraged that they understand the depth of frustration and disappointment.
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Post by inhocsigno on Nov 18, 2016 10:40:19 GMT -5
Sarasota - I am thinking about playing the best player on our team at this time. nothing else. It is idiotic not to play him. When 2018 rolls around, you play the best player at the position, who may or may not even be on the roster in 2016 or 2017. Your chicken little prognostication is simply not based on actual football thinking.
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Post by beerseach on Nov 18, 2016 10:41:22 GMT -5
I think this is a very flawed decision. Although the letter states "With the return of several top 5th year players in 2017.." it is a clear indication the decision has been made that Pujals is the savior of the program. The hopes of an entire football program are being pinned on one young man's shoulders. I think it is very unfair to Peter Pujals although I am sure with the character of that young man he will attempt to fulfill that responsibility. But mostly, I think that is very sad and completely unfair to the entire football family, from alumni, to the coaches, to the players. A football program should be bigger than any one player or coach if it is truly going to be a consistent, successful program. The return of Peter Pujals will not enhance or develop the players which has been severely lacking in both technique and fundamentals. Holy Cross basically laid two eggs this season WITH Peter healthy and playing. Honestly, against my own hope, I don't see anything more than a 6-7 win season at best in 2017.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 18, 2016 10:53:16 GMT -5
imo the rationale in the letter is BS to cover NP's error of TG's extension which he did not wish to buy out
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Post by hc87 on Nov 18, 2016 11:01:21 GMT -5
Laughable.....or pathetic, not sure which....probably both.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 18, 2016 11:34:27 GMT -5
My belief is that ADNP, whose Rolodex is surely the largest in the PL, could not identify enough prospective candidates from which to choose a successor. If he fires CTG, he has to immediately appoint an interim, who likely would be the OC, because its the middle of recruiting season.
If ADNP loses this recruiting season, then HC is poorly positioned for 2018, because, two years hence, you have an empty soph class, and are basically fielding 35-40 scollie players with any experience against two FBS schools.
And for all practical purposes, the interim becomes the next HC. Unless there is a candidate out of the blue, and as I noted in a separate post, all but one of 15 current head coaches in the IL / PL were either promoted from within, or had previous experience coaching in the Ivy League / PL. That tells me that being a HC in either the Ivy League or the Patriot League is not a position in high demand.
All that said, either marked improvement next season, or CTG is out. I would also look for changes in the assistant coach ranks, even potentially someone who could succeed CTG.
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Post by crusader12 on Nov 18, 2016 11:38:11 GMT -5
Whether you like the decision or not, I'm glad ADNP addressed the issue. FADDR would not have.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 18, 2016 11:41:16 GMT -5
I think this is a very flawed decision. Although the letter states "With the return of several top 5th year players in 2017.." it is a clear indication the decision has been made that Pujals is the savior of the program. The hopes of an entire football program are being pinned on one young man's shoulders. I think it is very unfair to Peter Pujals although I am sure with the character of that young man he will attempt to fulfill that responsibility. But mostly, I think that is very sad and completely unfair to the entire football family, from alumni, to the coaches, to the players. A football program should be bigger than any one player or coach if it is truly going to be a consistent, successful program. The return of Peter Pujals will not enhance or develop the players which has been severely lacking in both technique and fundamentals. Holy Cross basically laid two eggs this season WITH Peter healthy and playing. Honestly, against my own hope, I don't see anything more than a 6-7 win season at best in 2017. How exactly do you see "the return of several top 5th year players" as speaking only about Peter? He is clearly the most important of the red shirt returnees. However the others can also make a contribution - and IMHO they will do just that. To not play as a starter one of the best QBs to ever play at HC in order to try to bring in younger players and "build" for some unknown future is a fool's path. That sort of plan may work in pro-sports, but it can lead to disaster in FCS football. And, won't every player on the team look at how veterans they saw as leaders were simply shoved aside? Everyone can and will have an opinion about HCTG's return, but he is returning and nothing seems likely to change that. I plan to try to be as supportive of HC sports, including football, as possible and look forward to see what adjustments will be made between now and next season's kickoff.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 18, 2016 11:45:17 GMT -5
My belief is that ADNP, whose Rolodex is surely the largest in the PL, could not identify enough prospective candidates from which to choose a successor. If he fires CTG, he has to immediately appoint an interim, who likely would be the OC, because its the middle of recruiting season. If ADNP loses this recruiting season, then HC is poorly positioned for 2018, because, two years hence, you have an empty soph class, and are basically fielding 35-40 scollie players with any experience against two FBS schools. And for all practical purposes, the interim becomes the next HC. Unless there is a candidate out of the blue, and as I noted in a separate post, all but one of 15 current head coaches in the IL / PL were either promoted from within, or had previous experience coaching in the Ivy League / PL. That tells me that being a HC in either the Ivy League or the Patriot League is not a position in high demand. All that said, either marked improvement next season, or CTG is out. I would also look for changes in the assistant coach ranks, even potentially someone who could succeed CTG. I agree with everything except the size of NP's rolodex, which is greatly exaggerated.
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Post by beerseach on Nov 18, 2016 11:46:35 GMT -5
My belief is that ADNP, whose Rolodex is surely the largest in the PL, could not identify enough prospective candidates from which to choose a successor. If he fires CTG, he has to immediately appoint an interim, who likely would be the OC, because its the middle of recruiting season. If ADNP loses this recruiting season, then HC is poorly positioned for 2018, because, two years hence, you have an empty soph class, and are basically fielding 35-40 scollie players with any experience against two FBS schools. And for all practical purposes, the interim becomes the next HC. Unless there is a candidate out of the blue, and as I noted in a separate post, all but one of 15 current head coaches in the IL / PL were either promoted from within, or had previous experience coaching in the Ivy League / PL. That tells me that being a HC in either the Ivy League or the Patriot League is not a position in high demand. All that said, either marked improvement next season, or CTG is out. I would also look for changes in the assistant coach ranks, even potentially someone who could succeed CTG. In regards to your statement that HC would have to name an interim and lose a recruiting class, say they don't re-hire Gilmore next year. Aren't they in the same boat? Change is NEVER comfortable or easy. And if I'm the AD my mindset is that Holy Cross is a sleeping giant and a GREAT place to come and coach. I am selling the place because that's what I believe. The decision to keep Gilmore, which barring a complete miracle and every single bounce go your way, is not going to work out. He is lame duck because any chance he has of being retained will depend on an 8+ win season. How in the world will this possibly turn out for the better? All the AD did was delay the inevitable and if I'm Nate Pine, I bite the bullet and make the move now because there is 1-5% chance Coach Gilmore is re-signed after next season at best.
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Post by beerseach on Nov 18, 2016 11:51:58 GMT -5
How exactly do you see "the return of several top 5th year players" as speaking only about Peter? He is clearly the most important of the red shirt returnees. However the others can also make a contribution - and IMHO they will do just that. To not play as a starter one of the best QBs to ever play at HC in order to try to bring in younger players and "build" for some unknown future is a fool's path. That sort of plan may work in pro-sports, but it can lead to disaster in FCS football. And, won't every player on the team look at how veterans they saw as leaders were simply shoved aside? Everyone can and will have an opinion about HCTG's return, but he is returning and nothing seems likely to change that. I plan to try to be as supportive of HC sports, including football, as possible and look forward to see what adjustments will be made between now and next season's kickoff. What other player in the class of 2017 could they be referring to? I can say with almost 100% certainty that if you brought all those players back except for Peter, this move would not have been made. To clarify, I am glad Peter is coming back and never stated they should move on from him. I too plan on being as supportive of HC sports as possible. But I can still question this move for a few days as I felt Holy Cross mailed in two games WITH a healthy Pujals in the lineup. If they mailed it in WITH Peter, and mailed in at least two or three others WITHOUT Peter, what makes me think that will change next season? To Coach Gilmore's credit, I never saw any of his team's quit on him until this season. Once that starts, it usually doesn't reverse itself....
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Post by HC92 on Nov 18, 2016 11:52:48 GMT -5
Complete disaster. Good luck filling out the 2017 class. And then we'll be way behind for the 2018 class when we finally fire him at this point next year. I guess the silver lining is that I'll have an extra 7 hours on a couple of Saturdays next Fall. Epic fail.
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Post by hcnation on Nov 18, 2016 11:57:35 GMT -5
Following Holy Cross Football 50 years , but thinking about taking a sabbatical for a while.
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Post by bigfan on Nov 18, 2016 12:00:12 GMT -5
Is it possible that the administration would not allow the coach to be fired?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 18, 2016 12:03:50 GMT -5
Is it possible that the administration would not allow the coach to be fired? Is it "possible" - yes. I personally do not believe that was the case.
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Post by worcester on Nov 18, 2016 12:36:32 GMT -5
My belief is that ADNP, whose Rolodex is surely the largest in the PL, could not identify enough prospective candidates from which to choose a successor. If he fires CTG, he has to immediately appoint an interim, who likely would be the OC, because its the middle of recruiting season. If ADNP loses this recruiting season, then HC is poorly positioned for 2018, because, two years hence, you have an empty soph class, and are basically fielding 35-40 scollie players with any experience against two FBS schools. And for all practical purposes, the interim becomes the next HC. Unless there is a candidate out of the blue, and as I noted in a separate post, all but one of 15 current head coaches in the IL / PL were either promoted from within, or had previous experience coaching in the Ivy League / PL. That tells me that being a HC in either the Ivy League or the Patriot League is not a position in high demand. All that said, either marked improvement next season, or CTG is out. I would also look for changes in the assistant coach ranks, even potentially someone who could succeed CTG. In regards to your statement that HC would have to name an interim and lose a recruiting class, say they don't re-hire Gilmore next year. Aren't they in the same boat? Change is NEVER comfortable or easy. And if I'm the AD my mindset is that Holy Cross is a sleeping giant and a GREAT place to come and coach. I am selling the place because that's what I believe. The decision to keep Gilmore, which barring a complete miracle and every single bounce go your way, is not going to work out. He is lame duck because any chance he has of being retained will depend on an 8+ win season. How in the world will this possibly turn out for the better? All the AD did was delay the inevitable and if I'm Nate Pine, I bite the bullet and make the move now because there is 1-5% chance Coach Gilmore is re-signed after next season at best. If Holy Cross is a sleeping giant why are they lousy in ALL sorts? Just wondering.
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Post by realism on Nov 18, 2016 12:38:33 GMT -5
I don't see anything more than a 6-7 win season at best in 2017. Joe: I din't know what it takes to beat reality into some of these guys ?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 18, 2016 12:51:10 GMT -5
I don't see anything more than a 6-7 win season at best in 2017. Joe: I din't know what it takes to beat reality into some of these guys ? We play 10 games against 1-AA schools next year. If we go 7-3, with losses to UNH, Dartmouth, and one PL game, and compete for a PL Championship, what more could you want? I'm a little bit amazed at the people who are stepping away from reality of the deep hole our program was in after the lack of any type of support from the school for a long time, the delay in the PL allowing scholarships, and then the delay in HC full funding their scholarships. It's not going to be turned back around overnight. The last couple years have been a big disappointment, but it does not mean that TG is as clueless as some act like he is, and I have yet to see any type of list of potential (REALISTIC) candidates that would be a step up from TG's decades of experience at our level. Also, if it was a 50/50 decision on whether to keep TG around for another season or not, you have to think that Nate Pine would rather get rid of him so that he could hire his own coach and check off the "Hired a Football Coach" box on his resume. The fact that he signed him to an extension last year (which likely had some type of clauses included that we don't know about), and then retained him again this year indicates that he sees something in TG that makes him believe he can turn things around. Pine is trying to get out of Worcester as soon as he can, and to do that he needs successful teams on the field. He's not going to be delaying having a winning football program any longer than absolutely necessary.
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